That's interesting...according to the Oberste-SA-Führung list of 1935 and Robin Lumsden's list, neither Martin or Albert Bormann was a recipient of the Coburg Badge.
Br. James
Br. James
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The silver/ red badge was thought to be a special honor award given by Hitler.Originally posted by Br. James View PostComment
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Inscription
Can anyone make out this name?
It is written with the date of 1938 in the inside front piece of Kampf um Coburg book 1939Comment
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Hi,
what are the sources about the "red" Coburg badge beeing a special honor award ? And why would it be awarded, and for whom ?
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VinceComment
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Hi,
@ Spencer : "Hans ?apf - Weihnachten 1938".
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VinceComment
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ZapfComment
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Hi Vince,
I have held this badge in my hand on several occasions and IMO it is one of the most beautiful TR badges ever produced.
I cannot say what the criteria were for its production or its award but TR leaders sometimes had "special" awards made for "special" people.
One such award was the U-Boat badge with diamonds which Doenitz handed out to U-Boat captains who had earned the Oak Leaves and on at least one occasion a captain with RK but without OL's.
Goering had the Pilot Observer badge in Gold with Diamonds produced for "special" people, as well as several other private awards.
If you are seeking concrete evidence for the Silver and Red CB I admit you will probably not find it but that doesn't make it a copy.
Just my humble opinion of course.
StanLast edited by Stan; 10-16-2017, 06:15 AM.Comment
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Has anyone ever seen a photo of this unique CB in wear? Even in b/w this badge would probably be noticeable...? But if it hasn't appeared in one or more photos over 70+ years and if no one has ever seen period reference to it in print, either officially or in correspondence, then perhaps the historic validation for the existence of this beautiful badge is simply hearsay -- rumor created to justify what one sees in front of himself?
I have no dog in this race, friends; just trying to understand what has actually come down to us from the past and what can be tangibly verified.
Br. JamesComment
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For arguments sake many awards/insignia that exist have not been discovered in period photographs so the lack of a photo of this in wear is not necessarily proof that this is a post war badge.
From everything that has been discussed on this forum and others regarding this "red" badge, it was awarded at least once to Martin Bormann's brother by Hitler as a special award. Where this story started I do not know.
Gary BANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348Comment
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Hi,
As far i know, the "source" and the badge are on the same blog.
Such an award will "dismiss" and/or "insult" all the real NS members who went to Coburg.
I can understand that the BO was given to "every NS tourist" in 1938 or after that (i'm joking about "tourist", but you know what i mean as the badge was made for the putsch celebration, and it was given to members who never went there or even were nazi at the time), but the Coburg badge, no way.
The modern metal look is also - imho - deafening.
And i don't think is good looking at all. The original is simple and well done, with a nice color.
This "red" model is as good as the infamous BO prototype.
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VinceComment
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Vince,
Like the 2nd pattern Blood Order, Hitler presented the 2nd pattern Coburg badge to individuals who had supported the party in significant ways and had not participated in the 1922 Coburg march - so the precedence it there for a special presentation badge.
Gary BANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348Comment
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Hello Gary,
is it a sourced fact, or is it an hypothesis ?
Because i can give the perfect counterexample with the BO prototype fiasco which used the similar "trick" ("it was done for award x, so it should be done that way too, so this is real").
In real science it will get only laughs (like the laughs and tears the BO prototype got on the WAF). This "red" badge need even more solid proofs...
To say that "we discovered so many rare items decades after the war" is imo quite wrong : it is true that we identified dozen if not hundred of variants and variations, but such "unicorns" is quite uncommon... Even more without any period proofs.
And usually fakers use period "projects" to "make their dreams come true" (so many examples of "blueprints" that were created and sold as "rare birds").
This is like the Smurf village. I can't prove that somewhere in the universe it do not exist for real. But for no there is more facts saying that it came from the imagination of Peyo the original cartoonist.
The "only" difference with the BO 2nd pattern, is that the 2nd pattern flooded the NS community in 1938, with thousand of originals and period proofs...
Here we have a single example of an "UFO badge" with no period / factual proof that came from out of nowhere in 1968 from an author who did a great job in various books, but also flooded his works with obvious fakes (CDGL : perfect example, this is the 2nd variation of the first fake that was made in France after the war).
Same story for the BO prototype by the way... No period proof, only a "good unverified story". And we can discuss ad nauseam the lots proposed by auction houses that are common stuff that look just very (bad &) pimped for NS VIP members with a small signature (or sometimes even nothing, in that case the seller is playing on the faith - or stupidity - of the potential buyer)...
We don't know the origin of the badge, and how many Littlejohn bought it at the time (by the way the purchase price is not always a good proof, i know of many fakes usually sold for hundred of euros that were purchased for nothing by collectors, same as for original items by the way)...
What i think is that a good jeweller/metallurgist can do this kind of badge (today).
It could have been a personal order by a NS member, but then for what use ?
The wear of unauthorised awards = forbidden.
The badge is at best a fantasy item, period of post-war (the fonts of letters and numbers could be used to check that more closely, cf the excellent work on the Jeremy "Fake Factory" autographs website).
Also i'm not sure that it was a "good idea" at the time (pre-1945) to "copy" for a personal order an official badge. It was probably done, by the Coburg badge is amongst the most famous awards...
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VinceComment
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Both Carl Eduard Sachsen u. Gotha and Franz Schwede Coburg were awarded the Coburg badge although neither qualified for the 1st pattern badge (did not march in Coburg).
Gary BANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348Comment
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Vince,
I can not comment on the "prototype" badge for the BO. I know that there are those who believe and those who don't.
I am probably not the best person to write about this subject since political badges are not my area of collecting, but I do believe it has been stated by the BO collectors, and is well established, that Hitler reserved the right to award the 2nd pattern BO to individuals who had rendered important service to the party. So I suspect the same could have been done with the Coburg badge.
I do know there is much we do not know about the Coburg badge since so little records remain. For instance only 463 of the 1st pattern were awarded but there were at least twice that many participants from what I have read. We also do not know the time line for when the 2nd pattern badge was produced and why it was manufactured except to possibly correct the weak catch/pin structure.
Hopefully one of the more versed political collectors will respond to this thread.
Gary BANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348Comment
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I must admit that I’ve long since had the same beliefs as Vince on this Coburg badge. I would say the only main guy who would have wanted to wear or commissioned such a bling version would be Goring, and if it was his we would have spotted it in photographs. It’s not something I’d be bidding for if it came to the market. That’s not to say it’s fake, just that I’d rather buy something more accepted and comparable to known originals.Comment
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