Erich thank you for posting this photo.
That is exactly the place I thought.
Could be a holster, right place.
That is exactly the place I thought.
Could be a holster, right place.
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A good eye Joe and I agree that it could be a holster and in 1933 he would been permitted to carry a pistol.Originally posted by Robert H View PostComment
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Two GREAT photos from Erich! My sense is that, while the pictured event definitely took place in Munich, initiating at the Bürgerbräukeller -- like the annual Putsch Commemoration March did -- the assembled group in these photos is not nearly the same as would have headed up one of the Putsch Marches. It appears that the badges worn on elaborate chains by all of those men at the head of the march column are all identical, so the possibility of this being a Munich city-related event makes great sense to me. I see Lord Mayor of Munich Karl Fiehler there, also wearing one of these ceremonial chains.
Who is the man standing to Grimminger's right, just in front of Fiehler? He looks familiar to me but I just can't place him. Could it be a young-ish Adolf Wagner, Gauleiter of München-Oberbayern?
Thanks, too, to Erich and to Joe for your further responses to my questions re: the dust jackets...very helpful.
Br. JamesComment
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Wonderful fotos Erich, thank you for sharing.
Yes Joe, you've got a good eye as always, I did not notice the gun holster.
I have read that Emil sued Hitler for being laid off as AH's chauffeur and between that and his relationship with Geli, had fallen out of favor with Hitler until the ascension to power in Jan. 1933 when Emil felt it was in his best interest to restore his friendship with Hitler. Emil proved his loyalty by killing Edmund Heines during the blood purge. Even when presented with the fact that Maurice was 1/8 Jewish, Hitler still held a soft spot for his old comrade and forced Himmler to allow Emil and his brothers to remain in the SS.
Is it known why Roehm or Hess did not participate in the 1922 Coburg German Day? I suppose it was a rather last minute decision to attend with more than just a few SA men, though if this is true, Hitler certainly was able to muster up quite a large group of his SA rather quickly in the long run.Comment
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Hi SMV,
Your question regarding the absence of both Rudolf Hess and Ernst Röhm from the small list of recipients of the Coburg Badge...and therefore the absence of both men from that event in October of 1922...got me to thinking about who else was not present for that earliest of major events recognized throughout the history of the NSDAP. Firstly, the 'German Day' celebration in Coburg took place midweek -- October 14/15 in 1922 were a Tuesday and a Wednesday -- which presumably would limit the number of attendees to the unemployed and the elderly. Secondly, Hitler called out specifically for members of his SA to travel to Coburg; he wanted to make a big impression on the other rightist groups expected to attend, and he anticipated -- and perhaps hoped for -- a physical confrontation with the leftists who he also knew would turn out in strength. So he wanted to gather young, able-bodied and uniformed men there as he hoped to make an impressive show in that picturesque, medieval town.
If we look at the names of the early members of the NSDAP, up to Ernst Röhm (who was not present in Coburg), we see quite a few names of other early Party luminaries who did not eventually receive the vaunted Coburg Badge, including:
Hermann Esser
Dr. Arthur Dinter
Franz Xaver Schwarz
Gregor Strasser
Wilhelm Frick
Prof. Gottfried Feder
Philipp Bouhler
Rudolf Hess
Joseph Goebbels
Hermann Göring
Anton Haselmayer
Karl Fiehler
and even Hitler's mentor, Dietrich Eckart, was not numbered as present in Coburg for this event.
Always an interesting day on WAF! Cheers,
Br. JamesComment
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Dietrich Eckart was there riding in the same train car as Hitler and in fact he helped finance the trip. It was even said that he mixed it up with a couple of Marxists.Originally posted by Br. James View Post
He wasn't on the recipients list due to his death in 1923.
Oskar Koerner who was one the martyrs of the 9th of November also took part at Coburg.Last edited by ErichS; 04-04-2016, 06:18 PM.Comment
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A nice pic of Mutschmann wearing his CB and also his early armband.Comment
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Hi Br. James,
Thank you for this further eye opening examination of the Coburg participants. Your reasoning about who did and did not attend sounds very spot on and I am sure very close to the truth.
I have recently read that Prof. Rudolf Jung and Hans Krebs from the Czech and Austrian DNSAP (Deutsche Nationalsozialistische Abeiterpartei) both attended, but were not awarded the Coburg Badge in the long run as did many others, since we know the numbers of Hitler supporters (roughly) and the number of badges issued are quite different.
Hi Erich,
I thought Deitrich Eckhart had attended the affair too. He was also at the 1923 Putsch, only to pass away a little over a month later at Bechtesgaden from a heart attack quite possibly due to injuries sustained during the Putsch . Perhaps had he had a family, Hitler might have awarded the CB posthumously to Eckhart as Hitler held him in high regard.
Great photo of Mutschmann wearing the CB, General Gau Badge and a day badge? Got to love the early Gauleiter brassard.
MarcusComment
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Marcus,
Eckart was kept in the dark by Hitler and did not participate in the putsch. In fact, he was drinking with Heinrich Hoffmann at the time. Eckart died of heart disease and not anything related to the putsch.Comment
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Hi Erich,
I am afraid I am guilty of what many of us collectors do while researching potential new pieces for the collection. Not wanting to buy expensive, in depth reference books until the possible acquisition is final, searching the web, finding partial books and blogs online, not to mention all of the "pedias" that pertain to the subject at hand and then trying to piece together the most plausable scenario, at least until the more reliable, complete histories can be obtained.
I've been reading a bit on this early period lately, particularly 1922 Coburg, 1923 Putsch and the history of the early DNSAP. Though I cannot recall where I read the account of Eckart's participation in the Putsch, which was not extremely detailed, I can find many short references to his participation, arrest and imprisonment on many online sites.
From Wikipedia:
"On 9 November 1923, Eckart participated in the failed Beer Hall Putsch. He was arrested and placed in Landsberg Prison along with Hitler and other party officials, but was released shortly thereafter due to illness. He died of a heart attack in Berchtesgaden on 26 December 1923. He was buried in Berchtesgaden's old cemetery, not far from the eventual graves of Nazi Party official Hans Lammers and his wife and daughter."
I know... it's Wikipedia... but right now it's the best I can do. I'll continue to search for that reference I found recently concerning Eckart's participation in the Putsch.
In the meantime, I thank you for directing me to a version of the story that could very well be the authentic recounting of Eckart's involvement or rather non-involvement. What is your source for the account of Eckart drinking with Drexler during the Putsch, if you don't mind if I ask?
MarcusComment
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Correction; "drinking with Heinrich Hoffmnan"Comment
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Two sources regarding Eckart's non participation in the putsch;
"Munich 1923" by John Dornberg
"Hitler and the Beer Hall Putsch" by Harold J. Gordon.Comment
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Dear friends,
I just consulted my copy of Heinrich Hoffmann's autobiography, "Hitler was my Friend," (English translation by R.H. Stevens, published in 1955 by Burke Publishing Ltd., London) and Hoffmann tells the story of his non-participation in the Putsch this way: on the afternoon of November 8, 1923 Hitler and Hoffmann visited Hermann Esser, who was ill and in bed with "jaundice;" from there Hitler and Hoffmann went to the Schellingstrasse offices of the SA and the "Volkischer Beobachter," of which Dietrich Eckart was the editor at that time, and Hitler met with Göring -- the "senior Commander of the SA." Hoffmann continues thus: "...Hitler drew Göring aside and spoke with him out of my hearing. What's all this mysteriousness about? thought I, and left them to it. Before I went I asked Hitler what he was doing that evening and he replied that he would be very busy on a very important job. I went off to the Café Schelling-Salon, near my house, where Dietrich Eckart was waiting for me, and we settled down to our usual game of Tarock 'whist.' Little did either of us guess that at that very moment the preparations for the 9th November putsch were in process of being made. Even those who were to take part in the putsch did not know exactly what was expected of them. I went blithely home, and just before I was going to turn in, my telephone rang. It was the confectioner who had made the famous Hitler wedding cake. 'The National Revolution has been proclaimed from the Bürgerbräukeller,' he said. 'Hitler and Ludendorf have overthrown Kahr's Socialist government. A new government has already been formed, and Kahr, Lossow and Seiser are in it.' 'Impossible!' I retorted disbelievingly, 'Why, I was with Hitler only two hours ago!'
Hoffmann goes on to tell the story that early the following morning -- November 9th -- he went over to the Rathaus, saw the large swastika flag flying from the building and saw NSDAP speakers addressing the crowds in the square. He took some photos there, "and very soon my supply of plates ran out." Hoffmann went back home to get more photographic plates, but by the time he returned to the Feldherrnhalle on the Odeonsplatz, everything was over. He was told of the "dénouement" by a witness who was still present. Hoffmann ends this tale with: "I had missed the chance of taking an historic photograph, for which later Hitler would have been particularly grateful."
As a footnote, I found that "Tarock" and "Whist" are two similar card games...and the probability is that Eckart and Hoffmann had a few drinks while they played their games.
As always, I hope this vignette is helpful! Cheers, friends,
Br. JamesComment
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Thanks James and it's basically the same story regarding Eckart as in the two books that i've sourced.
The only reason that Eckart was arrested and sent to Landsberg was due to his close association with Hitler and not for his participation in the putsch which as we know was nonexistent.
BTW, the best book by far on the putsch is the one by Harold Gordon. It's a bit of a tough read due to being a more academic work.Last edited by ErichS; 04-05-2016, 04:50 PM.Comment
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Gentlemen,
Thank you very much for directing me to the REAL story of Eckart's non-involvement in the Putsch. I wonder when I will ever learn that blogs and internet anecdotes just don't supply reliable material when it come to historical accounts. A lesson (again) well learned.
Now that I have a good starting point with the books you recommend, I'll be able to put this most important episode in proper perspective. It does make very good sense that Hitler would not want to put his old friend in any danger during a potentially violent event.
Thank you again!
MarcusComment
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