The Coburg Badge

[Jon Fish]

No I don't know who owns it but I would sure like it.
First time I have seen her wearing the Coburg badge as well.
I have read elsewhere that she was involved and around at the time of altitude experiments in the KZ system,is this true?

[John Pepera]

Hello All,

May I ask where the two supposed attributed Gold Party Badge numbers To Sister Pia (Eleonore Baur) originated, I.E. #25 & #61?

In checking with the official 'Liste der Blutorden Tragers No. 1-1500' there is no entry for #25 and under the section of #61 I see the below entry. Is this the 'Eleonore Baur' as referred to?

Additionaly, may I respectfully ask Br. James what he meant by the following statement about "the mini form"?
"I have never seen a photo of her wearing either the GPB or the Coburg Badge -- assumedly it would have been in the mini form" 'Br. James'

Thanks and most respectfully to my learned colleagues

John

[Br. James]

Hi John,

According to the Patzwall book on Blood Orders, #25 is listed as follows:

25 Baur, Eleonore (Schwester Pia) (Stab. d. SA-Regiment München 1. Kp.)

This also corresponds to the alphabetic index, though there her name is listed as Baur, Elenore.

In checking the Brückner list of Blood Orders, neither her name nor #25 appears...

Patzwall lists BO #61 as:

61 Gierbauer, Hans Erich (Sturmabteilung Rossbach)

This listing of Gierbauer with #61 is also carried in the Brückner BO list.

There is some degree of confusion as to Sister Pia's Party number; apparently that was her original number when she first joined the DAP in 1920, though the biographical sketch I reprinted below also suggests 506 as her original number...? As Erich added below, apparently she never did receive the GPB.

As to my comment on her wearing the mini-version of the Coburg Badge, that was just my assumption based upon the full-sized medal being intended for uniform wear. However, since she did wear a nurse's uniform, that would account for her wearing the full-sized award.

Very sorry for any misunderstanding that my previous notes may have added.

Br. James

[ErichS]

Hi John, I think that you meant to write Blood Order instead of Gold Party Badge? As far as the BO number 25 being attributed to her, I have never seen that on any Blutordentraeger listings and # 25 is blank on my list. It looks like 61 is her number from the entree that you posted John.

[Br. James]

Sorry Erich, but John's posting of BO #61 is listed as belonging to Hans Erich Gierbauer as shown in his photo. Patzwall also lists #61 as issued to Gierbauer. I'm not sure why there is a difference between Patzwall's list and that which John is using...

Br. James

[ErichS]

Sorry Erich, but John's posting of BO #61 is listed as belonging to Hans Erich Gierbauer as shown in his photo. Patzwall also lists #61 as issued to Gierbauer. I'm not sure why there is a difference between Patzwall's list and that which John is using...

Br. James

I see that now, thanks BJ. So if she was number 25 what list shows it?

[Jon Fish]

[quote=Br. James;4664780]Hi John,

According to the Patzwall book on Blood Orders, #25 is listed as follows:

25 Baur, Eleonore (Schwester Pia) (Stab. d. SA-Regiment München 1. Kp.)

This also corresponds to the alphabetic index, though there her name is listed as Baur, Elenore.

In checking the Brückner list of Blood Orders, neither her name nor #25 appears...

Patzwall lists BO #61 as:

61 Gierbauer, Hans Erich (Sturmabteilung Rossbach)

This listing of Gierbauer with #61 is also carried in the Brückner BO list.


I would go with this information as correct.
It has been mentioned that she was the only woman to recieve the blood order however this is incorrect. There were 10 ladies awarded the 2nd pattern medal 13 March 1941 ,all on the same date so I am guessing some sort of special ceremony for them. Perhaps even with Elenore Baur as guest of honour

[Jon Fish]

Rather than repeating I think this thread is relevant here to our discussion...
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ter+pia&page=2

[ErichS]

Jon, if 25 is blank on period lists, how did Patzwall discover that her number was 25?

[Jon Fish]

Erich we would need to ask him that. I expect he looked at the archives and found a copy of period documentation. Or indeed he knows a collector with the medal and document. Given that we know she has the Blood Order and 25 was blank then it points to a strong possibility. I know there are other blank numbers also.
I wouldn't have thought he plucked number 25 out of the air and threw it in the list.

[Br. James]

Dear Jon,

Many thanks for calling our attention to the special award of the 2nd Issue Blood Order to ten women on 3/13/41 -- I had never looked that closely at the Patzwall list until this moment. While I also haven't gone through the names of all the 1st Issue BO awardees, it might be that the only thing one could say about Sister Pia is that she was the only woman to be awarded the 1st Order BO. Great catch!

Br. James

[ErichS]

Well, what we know for sure is that she was a true Alte Kampfer and there from the very begining of the Movement and was a rare holder of both the BO and CB.

On a different dicussion, it was never proven that for example, that the women killed during the bomb attempt on Hitler in 1938 were ever awarded the BO. The same can be said for any Martyr killed in service to the Party. There are no Martyr names listed on either the 1st or 2nd pattern BO recipient rolls.

[Br. James]

Dear Erich,

My memory gets fuzzy here; are you saying that the ten women listed on Patzwall's list of BO recipients on 3/13/41 were posthumous awards to those killed in 1938?

Br. James

[ErichS]

Dear Erich,

My memory gets fuzzy here; are you saying that the ten women listed on Patzwall's list of BO recipients on 3/13/41 were posthumous awards to those killed in 1938?

Br. James

I don't have the book but are there numbers attributed to the 1941 women recipients?

[ErichS]

The women listed in 1941 may have received the BO as living honor award recipients.There is no documation of any man or woman being awarded a posthumous BO. In fact, I think a member here found the order by Hitler that stated that the BO was not to be given to the familes of the dead.