Dear Mr Fish, you say,"Guys, what is to say the silver award mentioned is nothing but an exotic copy/fantasy piece ? I know its not always the wisest way but 'textbook' is certainly the safest way". With your expertes in these matters, you are saying this is a fake?
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Originally posted by SMITHEE View Post
I'm not implying this, merely asking the question of others who know this badge a lot more than I do. I am okay on Blood Orders but with the Coburg badge I defer to our more learned colleagues here...Comment
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Am I right in saying that a certain Chris Ailsby has an enamelled Coburg badge, with some reference to Himmlers brother?
That seems to be in my memory, but as I reached 50 in April it can`t be relied upon!!!!
However, i am not convinced
My advice to anyone with regards to this badge is confer with ErichS in the first instance just as any of us with a Blood order query would go to Jon Fish.
Just my opinion
JimComment
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Erich -- yes, I see that Schwede-Coburg was not on the original Coburg Badge list but appears on the Lumsden edition. And it's also interesting that Schwede-Coburg came late to the Putsch, as well; his Blood Order wasn't issued until 1939! If I had the time, I'd compare the lists to see who the other honorary Coburg Badge recipients were...
Br. JamesComment
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Jim Coburg -- the reference was made by ErichS that Albert Bormann, Martin's brother, may have been the recipient of an honorary silver Coburg Badge; see the photo Erich posted a couple of days ago on this thread.
Br. JamesComment
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Erich Benndorff -- the original list of Coburg Badge recipients, titled "Coburg 1922-1932," was published by the Stabsabteilung der Obersten SA-Führung and it includes 436 entries. Robin Lumsden's list includes 449 entries, the difference being 13 more on Lumsden's list. Twelve entries on Lumsden's list include the notation "Listed in DAL but not Original List" while Franz Schwede-Coburg's entry on Lumsden carries the notation "Recipient but not on Original List" and Fritz Weitzel's entry on Lumsden is noted "Shows being awarded in his Personnel File but not on Original List." According to these notations, that means that Lumsden carries fourteen more entries than the Obersten SA-Führung list. As you said, there does appear to be an error afoot here somewhere...!
As to the possibility of "late appliers" for the award of a Coburg Badge, I'm sure that could have happened, though the list produced by the Obersten SA-Führung was published at least ten years after the event which the badge commemorated...
Br. JamesComment
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Erich, I stand corrected. Yes, it was Albert Bormann . Told you I was getting old!!!!!!!
JimComment
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Jon, I think the reason that the badges were not numbered was due to the fact that so few were awarded and don't forget that this badge was awarded before the Party came to power in 1933 and also before the Hitler decree of 1936 listing the award as one of the top honor awards of the Party. I know it's like apples and oranges but neither the German Order or RKs were numbered either.
As far as the CB being give as an honor award it's just an assumption on my part due to the additional names added later. Erich, you maybe correct but as we all know Hitler did make honor awards of the BO & GPB so why not the CB to a select few?
There is no proof the silver badge ever existed but only one is known and dates to the Littlejohn collection and is the real deal IMO, even though the CB badge is listed as coming only in bronze officially.
Jon, I don't believe that the 2nd type badges were a second wave of awards like the BO but were replacements for possible lost 1st types due to the fragile pin attachments or extras to be purchased by original recipients.
Here is a photo of the cover of the original 436 list.Comment
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Jon, I meant to write that the 2nd types were not a second wave of awards like the BO IMO.Comment
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Br. James, Schwede Coburg was not at the Putsch but was awarded his BO for another purpose falling under the new regulations for the second striking of the BO.Comment
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I've been trying to fnd out more about the silver CB, but can't find the information again in my books. Might be faster to just type here: wasn't there another silver CB mentioned in one of the famous referenceworks? (In my memory i think it was to a female person, but i forgot the name?).
Also i agree, how unfortunate they were not originally numbered, but thats just the way it is.
Another thought, maybe a bit off and speculative, but what about the Deschler prototype CB with the white enemel centre that has been posted earlier in this thread and has been sold by Weitze a few years ago? What could have been the purpose of that one? Another honorary award? It does seem highly unlikely that it was a replacement badge for lost or broken badges?Comment
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I think that Niemann mentions two or three silver badges in his book.Originally posted by jabnus View Post
No idea why Deschler developed the prototype other than trying to possibly sell it to the Party after 1936 when the badge became an official party award.Comment
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Yes, Deschler was a firm in the market for making money with producing awards and badges - this time to the NSDAP representing the government of the Deutsches Reich, so great bargain to make some good deals with the state officials due to the chance to get official state orders and some of them being possibly ordered in high numbers: mass production, great profit - so what should these badge producing firms have been waiting for?
Of course that pushed the creativity of their chasers, engravers and all other metal and enamel specialists and I bet many more prime examples were made in the period and quite a number of them will not have been accepted and if they did not make it into an own firm archive they were destroyed or lost during the war.
Business as usual.Comment
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Hence the possible reason for the prototype of the CB by Deschler.Originally posted by Thorsten B. View PostComment
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Of course i agree to the purpose of Deschler making new awarddesigns, money rules the world, even in Third Reich Germany, but the CB was mainly a badge that you would expect not to be getting many new future recipients? When looking at most of the Deschler prototyps those were indeed of the type to be possible to be awarded massively in the future, but the CB was so high in prestige due to the for the party historical significance? Imagine someone having lost an Ek or RK in battle and then recieving a new one with a completely different design and enamel and etc? Higly unlikely i think? The same with the CB. I would expect someone when having a lost or damaged CB badge to recieve a new one, JUST LIKE the previous badge (this is the second type). Having a new CB badge with white enameled parts seems strange to me? one Alte Kämpfer to the other: "But were you in Coburg"? --> "NO! But i did do this or that and got me later this nice white enameled CB"!!! Not very likely....! Ah well, perhaps im speculating too much. i wonder who has bought that prototype and if we wil ever see uncensored clear photo's of it.
Could someone with the Niemann books please look and see if another name is written next to the silver CB? I think to remember that a female person also recieved a silver one?
best regards,
GastonComment
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