The Coburg Badge

[Br. James]

Sorry to keep chewing on this "Albert Bormann connection," friends, but following on what Jon just noted, it seems to me that if anyone other than Göring would have enjoyed this silver and red CB, it probably would have been either Franz Schwede-Coburg or Martin Bormann...or both! Martin Bormann was in much tighter with Hitler than his brother was, and he was able to squeeze a Blood Order out of Hitler...without actually having participated in that event. On the other hand, Albert was not at the Feldherrnhalle on 9.11.23 either and he never got a BO. And Schwede was the Gauleiter of Pommerania, where Coburg was located, so that should have counted for something!

Just sayin...!

Br. James

[Stan]

Although it has been mentioned several times that the Silver/Red CB was given to Albert Bormann, it is also claimed that the badge in Chris's collection was worn by his brother Reichsleiter Martin Bormann which, as Bro James says, would make a lot more sense.

I can't believe that some of you guys now entertain doubts about it. I suppose that I am probably one of the few lucky ones to have held it and it takes my breath away each time.

Stan

[Br. James]

Thanks, Stan; much appreciated. Now, if someone...anyone...could provide ANY documentation that this silver and red CB actually existed during the Third Reich, I would be much more accepting of this piece being legitimate to the period. But the earliest I've seen to date is a b/w photo of the silver and red badge in the Littlejohn & Dodkins reference book from 1968, and that's a minimum of 23 years after the fact, IMHO.

Thanks again,

Br. James

[Bob Hritz]

If my memory is correct, I saw one of these in the collection of Bill Rasmussen of Michigan. That would be around 1971. I do not know if this is the same piece in Littlejohn and Dodkins and the Chris Ailsby piece. Bill showed me a number of rare items and I recall that the silver and enamel Coburg badge was stunning. He assumed it was a prototype. Bill was one of the first collectors and worked very hard to contact veterans and buy their souvenirs. He was a friend and mentor and had the most remarkable collection.

The fakes, of that era, were quite crude and not such a problem as they are today.

Bob Hritz

[Erich B.]

I haven't held the silver version in hand, however, as Bob H said, at the time that this badge was known to exist (in a collection--like Rasmussen's), fakes were not very well made and did not need to be well made. IMO there is no period documentation about this badge nor about to whom it was given--that just been speculation, although I don't know from where or when the rumors about, for example, the Bormanns, started. Based on the quality of the piece and the aesthetics, IMO there is no reason this couldn't or wouldn't have been produced during pre45. Based on nothing but conjecture, my best guess was that it was specially ordered by or at the behest of Hitler himself and given to someone involved in the Coburg action. It was not necessarily worn by the recipient, because that person probably had a standard Coburg badge.
Erich

[Br. James]

Wow! Bill Rasmussen, eh? He was a friend of mine, too, and I had the privilege of visiting his History Shop and Museum in Royal Oak, Michigan a couple of times back in about 1970 or '71. Bill had the largest collection I've ever seen, before or since, though I understand that some of the pieces he had have been judged as fakes since then. I don't know about that, and when I visited his shop and museum, Bill filled the whole day with countless artifacts from his displays and from his safe...though I don't now recall seeing the silver and red CB among his treasures.

What a joy to ruminate on those cherished old memories of Bill and his wife in their shop! He was a giant in our hobby and I'll never forget him! Sincere thanks to Erich and Bob for reminding me of those great old days!!

Br. James

[JoeW]

Hitler never presented the first edition Coburg badge, so it is doubtful he would find the time in his busy schedule to present the second version. SS-OGF Fritz Weitzel wasn't on the first list and he was awarded the CB according to his SS officer file card.

Br. James, Schwede-Coburg was senior PL of Coburg which was located in Gau Bayerische-Ostmark. We was later appointed Gauleiter of Pommerania which is to the NE along the Baltic.

[ErichS]

I also had the privilege of visiting "The historical Shop" in Royal Oak, Mi back in the early 70s. I remember him showing me Hitler paintings that he had in his collection and was in owe of his vast collection.

I personally like the silver and Red badge but like others, don't know its purpose.

[Stan]

I have had a couple of discussions with Chris about his CB badge over the past few days and he has agreed to let me post more photos on the thread.

Chris has evidence that David Littlejohn purchased this badge together with an SA-Reiterabzeichen from the same recipient in the mid-1950's.

IMO it would not have made any sense whatsoever to produce a fantasy badge of such outstanding workmanship at that stage of the hobby.

I also think that the photos speak for themselves.

Stan

[Erich B.]

The ultimate Coburg!
Erich

[jimmy72]

The ultimate Coburg!
Erich

Or Ultimate Fake Coburg ... no period documentation , no makers mark or proof stamping . Probably made somewhere in Eastern Europe but you got the same old cheerleaders running onto the field , Pom Poms in hand , cheering away that it looks good , it feels good , someone once told me ... sounds like every other thread where a Nazi unicorn item shows up and later is proven to be fake/ fantasy. French Volunteer is right on , look at the Proto BO and now in miniature version if you can’t afford the big one !

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

The fakes, of that era, were quite crude and not such a problem as they are today.

The "red" Coburg badge is not a fake/repro, as it doesn't try to copy the original Coburg badge to "appear" like the original. It is more an "upgraded fantasy model".

Usually you don't get "better" detail/job on a fake (it can happens of course), the easiest and cheapest way is always to overmold an original or to "sketchy" copy it (from an original, or even sometimes from picture).

Bob is right that fakes are usually crude, the solution found by fakers are to put a nice (rarely believable imo) story with them, to "explain" why their fakes are so ugly/different from originals. This happened clearly with the Croix de Guerre Légionnaire, with the various stories given by the "patient zero" (and possible faker) who flooded the market. The problem is that he used a different story and source... with each different potential buyer. Bad romance.
The bigger the lie, the more people believe it.
And it is not an insult to buyers/owners. Everyone (or so) can be burned.

See You

Vince

[JoeW]

Or Ultimate Fake Coburg ... no period documentation , no makers mark or proof stamping . Probably made somewhere in Eastern Europe but you got the same old cheerleaders running onto the field , Pom Poms in hand , cheering away that it looks good , it feels good , someone once told me ... sounds like every other thread where a Nazi unicorn item shows up and later is proven to be fake/ fantasy. French Volunteer is right on , look at the Proto BO and now in miniature version if you can’t afford the big one !

A one of a kind fake made fifty years ago and not another seen since? I don't think Eastern Europe was turning out fakes then Jimmy. The countries were too busy shooting their citizens trying to escape and gain their freedom. There are no multiples of this Coburg version like the Prototype BO. No one is running around cheering and trying to sell you one. You couldn't buy it if your life depended on it.

I have examples of police schi-fuhrer and Bergfuhrer badges. While there is some documentation on them, they have no makers mark or proof stamping.

[jimmy72]

Yeah , your right Joe .. couldn’t afford that badge if “ my life depended on it “.
Actually , didnt even know it was made 50 years ago . Puts it around 65 ‘ then ?
Haha ! Just kidding , as a lover of all things enamel , I look and stare and see things from a manufacturer perspective , include a time frame , period materials, period glass and period construction ? Not on this one . An invoice from Littlejohn of badges purchased changes nothing ... 1 Reiterabzeichen / 1 Coburg Abzeichen ..let’s see it .

[JoeW]

Yeah , your right Joe .. couldn’t afford that badge if “ my life depended on it “.
Actually , didnt even know it was made 50 years ago . Puts it around 65 ‘ then ?
Haha ! Just kidding , as a lover of all things enamel , I look and stare and see things from a manufacturer perspective , include a time frame , period materials, period glass and period construction ? Not on this one . An invoice from Littlejohn of badges purchased changes nothing ... 1 Reiterabzeichen / 1 Coburg Abzeichen ..let’s see it .

I wrote you couldn't buy the badge if your life depended it. Not that you couldn't afford it. It will never be for sale. It was made 50+ years ago. First edition of Littlejohn's book with the badge shown was 1968.