Studio Portrait blood order

[ErichS]

I too only know of one type of ribbon for the BO. Rich can you post a photo of the Austrian style BO ribbon?

[SiPo]

Can't comment on the BO ribbon as I know nothing about these, but that is not a police long service ribbon.

This also does'nt suggest that he is not a member of the SiPo or SD, as not all of these were career police officers.

[Jon Fish]

I too only know of one type of ribbon for the BO. Rich can you post a photo of the Austrian style BO ribbon?

Erich, Rich is referring to the way the ribbon is court mounted above the medal. Goering wore his Blutorden in this way .
I have only once heard of an 'orange' BO ribbon and seen it.It was part of a set to an Austrian SS guy and came with the set direct from th family. However out of the other Austrain BOs that I have encountered I have not seen the orange ribbon

[Jon Fish]

Here is a period ribbon I have in the collection.I bought it because it was the same dimensions as the Blutorden ribbon,exactly. I wonder,this may well be the 'orange' version

[ErichS]

Jon, I have seen the Austrian style court mounting on a BO but never the orange BO ribbon.

[Rich Moran]

The fuzzy portrait is a bother Rich, but I still make out vertical white stripes on the right two ribbons, one darker and the other lighter. That means a 10 and 15 year to me. I see no solid colors. But maybe that are the floaters I have been noticing lately. Hmm.

I had not heard of the orange ribbon addition to Austrians. How was it worn? Is there any mention on the Urkunde? There was nothing in Dobek's award and material when I bought it and he was in the assault group on Dollfuss's offices.

Back in the mid 80's I aquired a 2nd issue BO with 2 ribbons. One was the typical ribbon for the award and the other was orange, bordered in white with a balck stripe in the center of the white border.

This was sold by Wolfe-Hardin and under Steves advice the second ribbon that came with it is as described for service in Austria and came with the award. Over the years and lots of reference books I did see it and listed as such. This particular BO came from Ober Danau as the information provided to me of the awardee. Being a 2nd version I can't say why this ribbon came with this piece buy only that of the sellers advice. Steve advised me then to be sure to hold on to the ribbon and he did state few would even know about it.

So in further research I found on page 590 of the US War Department Hanbook on German Military Forces which is color plate #XXIV. On the top row, at the end is ribbon #12 which is the same ribbon layout that came with the BO I purchsed.

DESCRIPTION: Entry to Austria.

So I would presume that some of those who were awarded the BO for what was done in Austria should have had this ribbon with the award and for entry to Austria. Since this is speculative, it is what it is: SPECULATION

To me trying to find out the whys with things like this are part of the mystery of collecting this stuff.

Unfortunately I don'y have privliges so can't post images of the ribbon. If someone wants I can scan it and send it to them for posting.

Joe, would love to see images of Dobek's award if thats possible. The grouping sounds like a choice center piece of a collection.

[Rich Moran]

Here is a period ribbon I have in the collection.I bought it because it was the same dimensions as the Blutorden ribbon,exactly. I wonder,this may well be the 'orange' version

Nope. The black ribbon goes to the edge on this ribbon. On the ribbon that I am reference to the black is in the center of the white stripes on either side of the orange ribbon.

[Rich Moran]

This also does'nt suggest that he is not a member of the SiPo or SD, as not all of these were career police officers.

Ain't no telling unless his service records comes from some where exactly what he did.

I wonder where he ended up towards end time? Did he make it and go into service in counter intellegence against Russia?

[SiPo]

However his ribbon bar has what I think is a police badge on it.

There is no police ribbon here. As I previously stated, the absence of a police long service ribbon does not mean he is not a member of the SiPo/SD, but there is not enough evidence to ascertain which organisation he actually represents.

I would wager a few beers to say his police service is in the mix for SD.

Once again, this is based on your perception of him wearing a police ribbon, but there was no pre-requisite for an SD member to have had a previous long police service. Again, there is insufficient evidence to define SD or SiPo.

How much time he spent with Kripo/Gestapo is also a pause for thought as well as these security services required help at a moments notice from SD.

Personnel of the SiPo and SD were frequently transferred from one organisation to the other, and as you quite rightly put ..."Ain't no telling unless his service records comes from some where exactly what he did."

[JoeW]

I think the mystery is solved. Rich, your "orange" BO ribbon is for the Anschluss Medal awarded to those who participated in the "reunification" of Germany and Austria in April 1938. The ribbon is a bit similar to the BO ribbon but has the central line of white/black/white running down the center where the BO ribbon doesn't. If yours is "orange", perhaps it is faded quite a bit.

Here is a photo of the Anschluss medal mounted with two others in a parade bar that was posted on this forum. Is this the ribbon that came with your BO and is so identified in the SHAEF book?

[McCulloh]

Joe:
I am not disparaging the Austrian 2nd type BO. This photo does not show a second type (I believe). I think that chap was in Munich in 1923.
That is why I think the photo is remarkable.
The ribbon bar to my eyes shows thre austrian awards (bravery,bravery,karl corss, HKx) denoting Austrian WW1 service. Following that are two NSDAP DA awards.
I have ruffled through a number of Austrian Old timer NSDAP application files. NONE of them were awarded the Deinstauszeichnung for party long service: NONE! This is despite subsequent BO and gold ehrenzeivchen awards.
I might add I haven't seen any Gau Honor awards either.
Austrians were somewhat surprised and miffed after the Anschluss to discover that many of their old Leiters were either retired or put in secondary, 'assistant' positions to German NSDAP cadres.

[JoeW]

I was just jibbing you a little Jeff about the Austrian BOs. I knew you meant no disparagement with the "honorary" comment.

It is a strange photo with the mix of Austrian awards and early party awards that would appear mutually exclusive.

[Rich Moran]

I think the mystery is solved. Rich, your "orange" BO ribbon is for the Anschluss Medal awarded to those who participated in the "reunification" of Germany and Austria in April 1938. The ribbon is a bit similar to the BO ribbon but has the central line of white/black/white running down the center where the BO ribbon doesn't. If yours is "orange", perhaps it is faded quite a bit.

Here is a photo of the Anschluss medal mounted with two others in a parade bar that was posted on this forum. Is this the ribbon that came with your BO and is so identified in the SHAEF book?

Joe,

After posting what I wrote I went further into For Furher and Fatherland to review the Anschluss medal, I wanted to be certain that I was not referencing this ribbon and the award that ribbon came with.

The ribbon mentioned for the Austrian Anschluss is not the same as what I have as the ribbon in my possession is a bright orange as can be with zero fading. It looks to be issued a short time ago and has not seen much if any sunlight as my display room has double curtans on the windows and has been like that for years.

Angolias book even states the Austrian Anschluss ribbon for the Austrian award is red with white and black within the ribbon band edges. These were awarded to the tune of about 318,689 of the award.

And no, the ribbon posted in the book I earlier referenced is distinctly orange as well & as mentioned prior, the ribbon in my possession is distincly orange and is not faded. As well, the description in the book is for ENTRY to Austria and not reunification.

If you can provide an email address I'll send copy to you or who ever else wants to see this of the ribbon and the color plate if that is possible to scan.

[JoeW]

Rich, I apologize for confusing you. The medal bar I posted had a double lapped ribbon for the Anschluss/Entry medal. That confused me about the center stripe that I wrote was on the ribbon. I was incorrect. The ribbon for that medal has a center of red, like the BO, but the edge is black with white on each side of the black. The BO ribbon has black then white from out in.

The ID in the SHAEF Order of Battle color chart #12 of Entry to Austria is the Anschluss Medal. If the edging on your "orange" color ribbon is the same, it must be an Anschluss Medal with a dye problem or something.

[Rich Moran]

Joe, you have email.

Nope, you did not confuse me at all.

Hard to imagine anyone issuing a faulty dyed ribbon for such an important award. I think the system would have caught any errors in color manufacture.

Don't forget, these second issue BO were later awarded so the supply system was somewhat more mature.

The ribbon is cut from a roll so there has to be other ribbons out there like this one.

By the way, my eyes tell me the entry ribbon on the plate is orange too, not red.

So if I am seeing that i have confused myself if that color is actually red, cause when the ribbon is next to it, they match. Also, as I recall Angolias descrption on the medal does not include "entry", as indeed these 2 incidents of the over throw/entry or vice versa were seperate incidents and as such may have merited seperate award.

Maybe too many red wines have me in thought of this but over the years I still have as yet to see another of this ribbon.

Nice cased awards you have there.