There was a thread on the Axis Forum a few weeks ago asking if the BO was actually awarded posthumously but no one had any opinions. So, I thought I would the same question here. All the major reference books say that about 400 BO's were awarded to those who lost their lives in service to the Party. If this is true it would have been the second pattern due to that no Martyrs are listed in the 1st pattern issue. Some think that a minature version of the Order was given to the families of the dead. Anyone have any opinions?
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Blood Order
Hi Eric,
Perhaps someone with a Patzwall could see if Horst Wessel was awarded a first pattern, good question though.I do not see why not as the German Order was awarded to both Todt and Heydrich postumously and became fondly known as the Order of the dead.So why not the Blood Order? -
Kyle, Horst Wessel is not listed in the first issue list that's why I think the Martyrs would have received the award post 1938. All sources have Heydrich listed as receiving the Order in 1942 posthumously and the last award as such.Comment
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Dear Erich,
I do not have my references here at work but awhile ago Bob Hritz addressed such a question in a thread that Bob Coleman started. Actually I think there were 2 such threads. In one thread Bob Hritz pictured a mini Blood Order and in the other thread he pictured (if I recall correctly) a blood order like plaque which was given to the NOK to those who died in the Pustsch. Also in the thread both Bobs pictured the very first Blood order pattern which I believe was pinback and only issued to a few people. Hitler eventually changed the design to what we know today.
I might be wrong on some of the small details but that was the gist of his/their posting. I am sure if you do a search on either of the Bob's names you will see these fantastic pieces in their collection.
Of course I am sure one of the Bobs will see this post and correct all of what I posted! Both are a plethora of info!
Gary BANA LM #1201868, OMSA LM #60, OVMS LM #8348Comment
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Gary, thanks for your reply. In my original post i mentioned the mini BO that some think that may have been awarded to the Martyrs. In all the references most have added the posthumous awards into the the total BOs awarded. I personally think that the families of the dead were awarded a plaque or miniture version of the Order. Anyone else?Comment
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The only thing i've been able to find in period references was that one could receive the BO if one was "badly wounded"ie. street fighting. This condition was put in under qualification # 2 in 1938.Comment
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GARY-Originally posted by Gary B View Post
VERY WELL STATED. MAY I STATE THAT BOB HRITZ'S KNOWLEDGE FAR SURPASSES MY OWN. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE WAS NEVER A NEXT OF KIN AWARD OF THE BLOOD ORDER. AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE POSTUMOUS AWARD GIVEN TO HEYDRICH. IT WOULD SEEM UNLIKELY THAT THE EARLY MARTYRS WOULD HAVE BEEN HONERED WITH THE SECOND ISSUE OF THIS AWARD WHEN SKIPPED THE FIRST TIME AROUND. AS OF THIS DATE, I DO NOT BELIEVE A LIST OF THE SECOND ISSUE RECIPIENTS WITH CORRESPONDING AWARD NUMBERS HAS EVER BEEN LOCATED. LIKELY, ONE WILL SOME DAY BE FOUND RESTING QUIETLY IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES IN WASHINGTON, D. C. WHEN THAT OCCURS, WE WILL HAVE ACCURATE INFORMATION TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.Comment
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The 'killed, wounded' etc. criteria didn't come about until the second pattern was created.
The second pattern went posthumously to the relatives of all those killed, plus those wounded, prison sentences etc. etc.
The first pattern was just for living survivors of the putsch. No-one else.Comment
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AND QUICKLY, WE HAVE THE ANSWER FROM ROBIN AND I AM ONCE AGAIN ENLIGHTENED.Originally posted by Robin Lumsden View Post
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Thanks for the answer Robin. The 1st pattern was only awarded to those who participated or attempted to participate the Putsch and I agree that it was after the awarding conditions changed in 1938 that included those killed and wounded and the families were presented with the 2nd pattern BO.Comment
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One last point, it seems when the critera changed in 38 to include the wounded and dead the name for the award "Blood Order" was used most often from then on. Thanks everyone for your input on this thread. Best, ErichComment
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In the Patzwall listing of the 2nd award winners, there are no posthumous awards listed--I checked against every list of martyrs including those who died well after 23 but prior to the BO first awards, and none are on the list. It's possible that the data that Patzwall used was from listings that would not have included the deceased or next of kin awards, but he doesn't mention that in the book.
I believe the first mention of the name Blutorden that I've located was in 1936 or so in an internal SA Verordnungblatt.
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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Thanks Erich for taking a look at the lists.There could have possibly been another list which shows the posthumous awards that has not been discovered as of yet.Comment
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That would be my guess, and as Bob mentioned, there must be a file listing the type 2 recipients by serial number that is probably in the crate next to the Ark of the Covenant in some government warehouse. Once it's discovered, it will truly be enlightening!
ErichFestina lente!Comment
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German thoroughness
It is hard to imagine that the Germans would not keep an archive for 2nd patterns.Secondly the sheer prestige associted with the BO suggests records were kept, but where ?Comment
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