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    #1

    Early SS armband?

    Hi,

    I am just wondering if you guys can tell me if this is an early SS armband or not. I noticed that it has the same construction as of an SS armband but is missing the top and bottom black lines.

    Thanks.

    Thorn
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    #2
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    pic 2
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      #3
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      pic 3
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        #4
        No, it's either SA or Party organization.
        Erich
        Festina lente!

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          #5
          Erich is right - blue RZM tag = SA or Political Leader. An SS one would have a black print tag. Nice example.

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            #6
            .

            Aaahhhh....Thanks guys!

            Would the SS lable in black say NSDAP if it was early?

            Thorn

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              #7
              Here's a link to photos of the cloth and paper versions of the SS RZM tag for armbands:
              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=297270

              The paper ones were also issued by the "Reichszeugmeisterei der NSDAP"

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                #8
                .

                Thanks sjl,

                One more question....I hope that you don't mind.

                Did the SS always have the black stripe on the top and the bottom of their armbands? If not, what would the RZM tag look like?
                The link that you gave me only had the striped armbands showing as SS..
                Thanks.

                Thorn

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                  #9
                  That's a question better answered by the Black Corps collectors, but I'll give it a try and will be happily corrected.

                  Regulation SS armbands had the black stripes from very, very early on. If you look at some of the earliest photos, you'll see the distinctive armband in use.

                  The idea of an SS armband without the stripes I am told comes from Jack Pia's 1974 book (my first, as well as many collectors) on SS Regalia, which shows a photo of a standard party armband (no black edges) on an SS overcoat. The story is the photo of the back was switched with another and mislabled to show a paper SS RZM tag on a regular party armband. The story I was told is that they simply switched the captions in the book, so the black SS tag didn't really belong to the plain party armband. And so a legend was born of plain party armbands with black SS RZM tags. At least that is the story.

                  Did the SS occasionally use party armbands? Possibly. Were they manufactered with black SS RZM tags? I doubt it. The RZM system only got into full swing in early 1935, and the SS was pretty well established by then (Night of the Long Knives was the year before), so "variants" with RZM tags are pretty unlikely.

                  At least those are my thoughts, and I'll be happily corrected by our more knowledgeable friends who swim in the shark-infested waters of collecting the black stuff.
                  Last edited by sjl; 07-03-2008, 09:38 AM.

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                    #10
                    .

                    Hahaha! "Infested waters of the black stuff"

                    Thanks you Stephen for taking the time to explain all that to me.

                    Thorn
                    Last edited by Thorn; 07-03-2008, 08:56 PM.

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                      #11
                      Armband

                      Rest assured that your armband is either SA or Political.

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                        #12
                        Your armband is most probably SA; and meant for someone of, say, more means than the next person. The construction gives a clue as to the cost... wool band, sateen circle with what appears to be strips of sateen sewn into a hakenkreuz... pretty upscale. There were so many variations available at various costs, from the least expensive (silk-screened cotton) to the armband you own. Very nice example.

                        Political leaders, except for the highest (inner circle) leaders such as Hess, Goebbels and Hitler himself (who all wore the type you have), would have worn bands with a coloured band at the top and bottom edges indicating the level at which they were leaders (Gau, Kriese, etc.), gold trim around the white disc, and gold stripes, top and bottom and intersecting the top and bottom of the white disc. In the highest forms (Gauleiter and Minister) these gold strips were wider and in a repetitive oak-leaf pattern- the ministers had two strips as described above; the Gauleiter's had one broad strip in the center of the band. Also, at the higher levels, a gold "pip" would be in the center of the hakenkreuz.

                        SS armbands always had the two black strips.

                        Earlier, there were several odd armbands worn by political leaders with one, two and three white strips around the middle of the armband indicating level of leadership and, in fact, I've even seen Goring with a black, white, red, white and black (top to bottom) band on his armband. I've also seen the hakenkreuz turned to where the lines are horizontal and verticle rather than diagonal.

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                          #13
                          .

                          Thank you very much for the info Greg! I would never had made it on my own. I will study your info and hopefully learn from it!

                          Hope all is well!

                          Thorn

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