SA Tabs & Shoulder Board - would like an opinion

[checkit]

I bought these based on a medicore photo - now that I get them, I have questions about them. They are not made like any SA tabs I have ever seen before. There is no glue-impregnated backing - just some black stabilizer material - and the "piping" is machine embroidered onto the tabs. I think they are Rose Red with B/W piping for Ostmark?

The owner swears these were a direct vet purchase he made some years back, so thought I would get some expert opinions before deciding whether to keep them. Absolutely dead under UV light.

[checkit]

Backs -

[checkit]

Closeup of back -

[mseagle]

Sorry, but not a chance on this set. First, I have never seen the piping to be embroidered???? The set should not have piping on the tabs anyhow if it goes with the EM board. Second, the 92 Standarte is out of Gruppe Niedersachsen, which would be brown. Last, the backing is not a period material.

Hope I could help.

Mark

[sgstandard]

Set

Boy, that is sure an oddball set. The combination of red tabs and black & white piping was NEVER used, to my knowledge. Red tabs used red & white piping. Even if you argued that this was an obscure, very early set, the white unit number embroidery would not look like this. This is a post 1940 style. I've seen some oddball tabs that were very early, but this set isn't one of them.

[checkit]

Here is another pair I woud like an opinion on. Thin green wool, stamped oakleaves, dead under UV light. I can't see any RZM markings on the back, but have not removed the rank insignia. Are these being faked?

[sgstandard]

Set

I read your description again, and I notice you mentioned. They did use a reddish-pink color with black/white piping. Your photo looks more like red. here's an Ostmark pink to compare. (However, it's possible the tabs are early Kurpfalz. For a brief time in early 1934, Kurpfalz wore pink w/ silver pips) Regardless, this is more like the Ostmark color:

[checkit]

Backs:

[sgstandard]

Tabs

Colors are wrong. SA regulations for Obergruppenfuhrer from 1933, early 1934, late 1934, late 1938, and late 1940 ALL indicate silver piping, and silver oak leaves and silver pip. 1944 regulations indicate a bright red collar tab and TWO pips for rank of Obergruppenfuhrer. I HAVE seen a gruppenfuhrer tab that was red with gold piping and gold oak leaves in an SA book. (Purpose unknown) It's a moot point because the green tabs posted look like they were made a few hours ago.

[checkit]

Thanks - I bought them based off a photo that was so dark, I thought they were gold oakleaves on a dark blue tab for SA Marine (that would have been something). So looks like I go took hook, line and sinker.

[Erich B.]

I agree with Mark; I'm afraid the first set is a fabrication done from photographs by someone not familiar with the actual construction or materials. The green pair is harder to say. These are being faked, and have been for some time. Initially they were made with original leaves and pips with modern made cloth portions, but I've seen too many at a few recent shows (read: stacks!) so they are being reproduced. This pair appears sloppily made, or at least the oak leaves are not well placed, and they don't have the normal metal prong setup-- it depends on the wool material used, actual backing buckram, details of the piping, etc. I can't see enough detail to the wool fabric in the photos on my monitor.
The pink tab could have been used by Ostmark or Kurpfalz (for a short time) as noted by S., or Südmark. It's hard to say when the metal devices were applied (it's not a normal SA set up), so it's anyone's guess how this one started life and for which group.
Erich

[sgstandard]

Tabs

Thanks Erich - Here's a pic of the back. I believe the tab is original, but since I've seen Ostmark unit tabs that are blank, I believe this tab may have started out that way, and perhaps someone got a little creative.

[mseagle]

The green set is also bad in my opinion. These tabs are being reproduced as Erich mentioned for use as SS Police General tabs. I'm not so sure the oakleaf devices are good either. They lack the detail I like to see on originals.

Mark

[luftwaffe blue]

Checkit, who sold you these? a dealer or private sale?

[checkit]

It was a collector who said he was retiring, and getting rid of a few things. He said they were direct vet purchased by him. I am returning them.