2 hat eagles

[CROATIA]

I do not see any other markings on political eagle. On HJ eagle I forund smal M1/16 marking.
They are bought from private person (non collector).

[sjl]

Surely right but: the "Ost" cuff titles in the book with RZM tags...sorry but it's not my speciality, not under RZM control? Wrong tag, nothing to do on the band ?
And what's with Wehrmacht belt buckles RZM M4/XX marked...? An error is still possible.
It's only a report which I makes, I don't want to impose any opinion...

I'm not sure what OST cuff titles you refer to - there were party orgs that used them too, so it might be one of them you are thinking of. I've never seen an RZM marked Heer buckle that I consider original. The RZM had nothing to do with Wehrmacht equipment.

There was an early mistake from 1935 of a Luft dagger hanger marked RZM UE 10, but that is pretty much it. If you see an RZM mark on anhthing other than one of the top three organizational levels of the NSDAP ( NSDAP, HJ, DAF, SS, SA, NSKK, Frauenschaft, Frauenwerk, NSV, Pol. Leiter), run and hang onto your money.

RZM regulations were very specific and vigorously enforced.

[Pascal Bernhard]

I do not see any other markings on political eagle. On HJ eagle I forund smal M1/16 marking.
They are bought from private person (non collector).

What I like on this "eastern territory" eagle is how are welded the prongs and the general aspect of the insignia, but as said I'm perhaps wrong.

[Pascal Bernhard]

I'm not sure what OST cuff titles you refer to - there were party orgs that used them too, so it might be one of them you are thinking of. I've never seen an RZM marked Heer buckle that I consider original. The RZM had nothing to do with Wehrmacht equipment.

There was an early mistake from 1935 of a Luft dagger hanger marked RZM UE 10, but that is pretty much it. If you see an RZM mark on anhthing other than one of the top three organizational levels of the NSDAP ( NSDAP, HJ, DAF, SS, SA, NSKK, Frauenschaft, Frauenwerk, NSV, Pol. Leiter), run and hang onto your money.

RZM regulations were very specific and vigorously enforced.

Here with an old thread with WH buckle marked M4/44...
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...kle+RZM+marked
I think this kind of buckles could exist, regulation and reality are well offen different.

- and the cufftitle are on page 155 in the same Angolia book, what of course is not a reference, only period pics and texts could be used as references.

[Military]

After looking at the closeup on the link above, I'll have to say the RMBO eagle is a fake. The RZM has the "lazy M" in the logo, generally indicative of fakes, and I can see no corresponding license number ("M1/XX"). One without the other is wrong. That and the fact that RMBO insignia was not under the RZM all points to this eagle being a fake.

In addition, the one on "German War Booty" is artificially aged.

What was the Lazy M in the logo that sjl was referring to? I PM-ed him several moons ago but there has been no reply. could someone enlighten me?

[Mainemilitaria]

The RMBO eagle is a fake.....I believe "Delta International" first sold these in the late 60s/ early 1970s.....anyone who was around back then should remember them well.
These RZM marking without a code should be clear enough that something's rotten in Denmark....as well as the "soft" details on the back side (if this was an SS buckle there'd be no question)....

I don't mean to burst anyone bubble....but this is one I'm 100% certian about! For what it's worth....I've been collecting for over 52 years....and dealing for at least 35 years. I wouldn't say "100% sure" if I wasn't......

There are original metal RMBO eagles, of course.....but this isn't one of them.
John G.

[Pascal Bernhard]

Every day is a day to learn something

[Military]

Hi John,

could you post some original photos of the RMBO eagle? and were these gold gilded or in silver?

anyone else with the RMBO eagles - I'll be very thankful if you could post a photo of the front and reverse please. many thanks.

[Silesien]

John G. is correct in that the RMBO eagle is a fake,- it wasn't sold by Delta International, but was sold by WW2 Products Ltd., St. Louis, - it's pictured on page 38 in their old catalog, item #130. These were all over the place at the gun shows of the 60's/70's & even the 80's.

[Military]

are the real ones very hard to find? or rather are these the rarest of the eagle insignias?

[sgstandard]

Eagle

As for RZM marks without other codes, I've seen early SA/SS cap eagles with the RZM logo and nothing else. Other early political items were often marked with the RZM logo and just one number to denote manufacturer. And some items have the RZM logo, and also say: U.E., then a number. These are all on early items.

[Bob Coleman]

As for RZM marks without other codes, I've seen early SA/SS cap eagles with the RZM logo and nothing else. Other early political items were often marked with the RZM logo and just one number to denote manufacturer. And some items have the RZM logo, and also say: U.E., then a number. These are all on early items.

The official publication of the RZM manufacturers code numbers was released in print in March of 1935. Prior to that, all of the manufacturers had been cleared and authorized. Likely they were issued their numbers long before the official release. I have no doubt that some manufacturers began using their code numbers as soon as the dies were ready, other manufacturers just utilized the RZM logo and some may have not marked anything until the official release of the numbers. 75 years ago, instant communication was not a feasability. There most likely were many exceptions to the rule at that time due to miscommunication. I know of one manufacturer for whatever reason requested and was granted release from approval and such was granted in writing on 10 January 1935. At the time, he already had been granted a manufacturing code number.
I also remember the fake RMBO eagles. To the best of my memory, they showed up in 1969 or 1970, Both companies cited sold these items. They were not believable then and today are just as unbelievable, just older.

[Military]

Having an RZM with just one number is common on the early political eagle pieces which I have also observed.

But to have just an RZM with no code makes no sense to me. its like putting GES GESCH and you do not add the maker name - so copyright, but to whom? (although i know several pieces only had the GES GESCH marking with no mm).

[Military]

Bob,

if that was so, then would the RMBO as above be a legit one? I actually have one of these RMBO eagles with only the RZM mark. it does not have any mm numbers and from the way its been made, the details are not crisp. im inclining to say that the RMBO is a copy, perhaps from that of WW2 Products or Delta.

Could someone post a legit RMBO?

[Bob Coleman]

Bob,

if that was so, then would the RMBO as above be a legit one? I actually have one of these RMBO eagles with only the RZM mark. it does not have any mm numbers and from the way its been made, the details are not crisp. im inclining to say that the RMBO is a copy, perhaps from that of WW2 Products or Delta.

Could someone post a legit RMBO?

I edited my post agreeing that the posted eagle is a fake. I certainly would have doubts about an RZM marking of any type on a RMBO eagle. As the war progressed, the control of manufactured new items subject to RZM approval evidently eased. I have seen numerous SA, NSKK and NSDAP war time variations of bergmutze, feldmutze and schiffen without RZM tags. Likely this was due not only to a manpower shortage but also other issues were more important at the time.
I have only seen one original example of the RMBO metal eagle that I knew to be period. It was mounted on an other ranks visor cap that had been in the collection of Ed Stadnicki and was sold in a Mohawk Arms auction around ten years ago. I have seen numerous visor caps and feldmutze with cloth insignia but only the one cited metal example.As many of these lower ranking RMBO members were Eastern Volksdeutsche, it is unlikely that many examples traveled west to be taken by the Western Allies soldiers as souvenirs. I would guess the majority stayed in the East.