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Fleiger H J or Standard HJ?

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    Fleiger H J or Standard HJ?

    Hi this has just arrived and was sold as Fleiger H.J. however someone more knowledgeable than I has cast doubts,offereing the opinion that it is instead an early example as per the regulations of September 1933, wherein it is stated that piping (2.5mm wide) should correspond to the Oberbann colour (I believe blue corresponds to Oberbann 4). Incidentally, Flieger HJ blue is "light blue.Presence of national emblem indicates that the cap is for Kameradschaftsfuehrer and above, i.e. Kam'fuehrer through to Unterbannfuehrer in the case of your cap.
    Also, brown cloth visor, forbidden by regulations, as of 6 November 1936. Replaced by black leather visor. Strap also changed from brown to black at this time. The chin strap on this cap is brown.
    So your cap must be 1933-1936, or most probably circa 1934/5 going by the badges. the hat i have padded to show better as it tends to collapse.
    Attached Files

    #2
    pic 2
    Attached Files

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      #3
      pic 3 All help appreciated thanks in advance RMR
      Attached Files

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        #4
        Sharper Pic Of The Front
        Attached Files

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          #5
          I would say Fleiger?

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            #6
            Hi,

            Yes, your guy is correct RMR. At this early stage the piping colours signified the Oberbann (in this case Oberbann 4 as you say) and not the branch of the HJ to which the wearer belonged (Flieger, Motor etc.).

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              #7
              many thanks SCHMUSI for your reply and to ISTVA HJ for yours,much appreciated.Roger

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                #8
                Great looking cap!!
                Last edited by Kurt Meyer; 01-17-2008, 12:55 PM.

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                  #9
                  hey how did a "kid" get to the rank Oberbann ?

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                    #10
                    It's not a rank 1stva_HJ. The Oberbann was an organisational level within the HJ structure. At the time this cap was being worn the structure of the HJ looked like this:

                    HJ

                    Gebiet
                    Oberbann*
                    Bann
                    Unterbann
                    Gefolgschaft
                    Schar
                    Kameradschaft

                    DJ

                    Gebiet
                    Oberbann*
                    Jungbann
                    Stamm
                    Fähnlein
                    Jungzug
                    Jungenschaft


                    BDM/JM

                    Gebiet
                    Gau*
                    Untergau/Jungmädeluntergau
                    Mädelring/Jungmädelring
                    Mädelgruppe/Jungmädelgruppe
                    Mädelschar/Jungmädelschar
                    Mädelschaft/Jungmädelschaft

                    * These were removed from the organizational structure in mid-1934.

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                      #11
                      Schmusi,

                      Is it true that the Bann a Regiment was and the Stamm a Bataljon and Kamaradschaft a group etc.?

                      Cheers,

                      Michael

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                        #12
                        I still don't really get it....

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                          #13
                          Which bit?

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                            #14
                            like where is each Oberbann? like i'm a HJ reenactor and I have a Ost berlin arm patch and a red arm sig that means Oberbann 1.. so would that be right?

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                              #15
                              Maybe I can help with US military equivelants

                              Kameradschaft = Squad
                              Schar= Platoon
                              Gefolgschaft=Company
                              Unterbann= battalion
                              Bann=Regiment
                              Oberbann*=division
                              Gebiet = corps or army

                              Paul

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