HJ Marine uniform

[willie777]

I found this picture of a HJ Marine somewhere on my hard drive recently but have no idea where it came from (must have downloaded it surfing the web a while ago) I find the uniform that the HJ is wearing is quite impressive, and would like to know more about it. What ranks are allowed to wear it? What should the cap and tunic look like?, etc.

[willie777]

OK heres what I think, based on logic and applied logic:

This uniform was worn by Gefolgschaftfuhrer and above, including adult leadership. I am particularly interested in the youth officer ranks (Gefolgschaftsführer thru Oberstammführer).

I am pretty sure that these questions apply also to the regular HJ, but I'll ask anyway. Did the Youth officers wear a belt with a square or round buckle HJ belt? With a knife or leaders dagger? As you can see from the pic, it is probably an adult leader, wearing a tie, but did youth officers wear a neckerchief or tie under a tunic?

This is probably the only HJ marine specific question, but what did the HJ Marine cap for youth officers and adult leadership look like?

[Bob Coleman]

This is probably the only HJ marine specific question, but what did the HJ Marine cap for youth officers and adult leadership look like?

THE VISOR CAP HAD A GILT POLITICAL EAGLE IDENTICAL TO THE ONE WORN BY POLITICAL LEADERS. BELOW THE EAGLE WAS A GILT HAND EMBROIDERED WREATH WITH AN ENAMELED HJ DIAMOND IN THE CENTER.

[echoe]

hj marine

the illustration is a photorealism drawing from "german uniforms of the third reich" by brian davis & pierre turner, 1933-1945, copyright 1980 blandford press.
the technique of "photorealism" a watercolor or oil depiction -- involving thorough reproduction of detail.
the following is a definition form another website-- blah blah but it is accurate
"In painting the results were nearly photographic-- in fact made from photographs (although painters had been working from photographs since the early days of photography). Although its center was in the United States, the Photo-Realism movement was also strong in Europe from the late 1960s into the 1970s ... "

best

tc

[willie777]

the illustration is a photorealism drawing from "german uniforms of the third reich" by brian davis & pierre turner, 1933-1945, copyright 1980 blandford press.
the technique of "photorealism" a watercolor or oil depiction -- involving thorough reproduction of detail.
the following is a definition form another website-- blah blah but it is accurate
"In painting the results were nearly photographic-- in fact made from photographs (although painters had been working from photographs since the early days of photography). Although its center was in the United States, the Photo-Realism movement was also strong in Europe from the late 1960s into the 1970s ... "

best

tc

Thanks for the source, but I think I wound it on a website. Something like KriegsMarine international...

THE VISOR CAP HAD A GILT POLITICAL EAGLE IDENTICAL TO THE ONE WORN BY POLITICAL LEADERS. BELOW THE EAGLE WAS A GILT HAND EMBROIDERED WREATH WITH AN ENAMELED HJ DIAMOND IN THE CENTER.

Like this? (From Outpost Flags; repro):

So political eagle, and naval wreath... OK! Is the chinstrap supposed to be kriegsmarine style or political/ss-style.
Is this the same for all ranks above gefolgschaftfuhrer?
Is the white top allowed?
What should the chinstrap buttons be like?
Why does the picture show everything as silver, not gilt?

Some other new questions:
What should be the type of buttons on the tunic?
8 buttons (like Wasserschutzpolizei) or 10 buttons (like Kriegsmarine)?
KM blue or HJ black (cant be too safe)

Remaining questions:
Did the Youth officers wear a belt with a square or round buckle HJ belt?
With a knife or leaders dagger?
As you can see from the pic, it is probably an adult leader, wearing a tie, but did youth officers wear a neckerchief or tie under a tunic?
Are these the regular HJ items or are some HJ Marine specific?

Reaasurrance of my intentions: My intent is to create a uniform of a HJ marine, but my intention is not to decieve.

[willie777]

New intel, which seems to contradict Bob Coleman's statement and confirm the picture. Now I'm really confused.

The naval branch of the Hitler Youth Movement was created to foster and promote an interest in ships and sailing. Boys from coastal areas around Germany and those parts of Germany near large expanses of inland water and waterways were encouraged to join these Marine-HJ units. When membership of the HJ became compulsory in 1939, these naval units became a valuable means of teaching these youngsters the art of seamanship in preparation for their possible or eventual entry into the regular wartime Kriegsmarine. Many aspects of the uniforms worn by members of the Marine-HJ were based on those uniforms to be found in the German Navy. However, the most notable difference was the use of white metal insignia and fittings in place of the gilt coloured items used by the Kriegsmarine, and for that matter the Marine-SA. The leadership of the Marine-HJ was furnished by qualified older youths or adults, normally acting as instructors (59). Their uniform was very similar to that worn by members of the Marine-SA. Shoulder straps worn by members of the Marine-HJ which were the only systematic visual method employed to indicate rank differed from the final pattern shoulder straps used by the rest of the Hitler Youth and introduced during 1938. The Marine-HJ shoulder straps were of dark navy blue piped yellow whereas the rest of the HJ were in black and piped in various colours according to their branch of HJ service.

[willie777]

A picture is worth a thousand words

Alternatvely, if anyone has one of these uniforms, can they please post a picture?

[1stva_HJ]

What did the Marine DJ uniform look like?

[willie777]

I found several pics on our very own forum... Apparently a lot of HJ stuff is in other forums. As I am trying to repro a uniform (Again, not to sell, it just looks impressive)

This picture shows that the SS/Political style (Not KM style) chinstrap is correct for use on these caps...

Please assist in answering any of the remaining questions...
Thanks, Willi...

[1stva_HJ]

was there a DJ Marine

[willie777]

was there a DJ Marine

Yes... and it is probable that their unifroms are the same as the HJ Marine, but the problem is, what did the HJ marine uniforms look like.

[1stva_HJ]

do you think they still had the arm sig?

[stonemint]

This is a tough topic. It looks like some references state the wreath should be gold bullion, others silver (silver may be Marine HJ Admin). Some say the wreath should be Marine-SA style, others standard Naval (both with the HJ diamond.)

This would be a Marine-SA style wreath:

[stonemint]

It does appear that they all were supposed to have the silver Political eagle. This is one that I can't vouch for:

[stonemint]

This one has the Political chinstrap with the gold buttons (some references say they should be silver):