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    #1

    AH plaque on the e-stand

    There is an AH plaque currently for sale on the e-stand which is in my opinion not good.

    E-stand add:

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post2332139


    Here are comparison photos with another AH plaque. The one of lesser quality and detail is the one for sale on the e-stand.






    Tags: None
    #2
    Without holding them in real life its difficult.
    But it looks like the one on the estand is heavliy corroded, if not then i would say its a cast copy.

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by schönbeck View Post
      Without holding them in real life its difficult.
      But it looks like the one on the estand is heavliy corroded, if not then i would say its a cast copy.
      looks like a copy

      Comment

        #4
        impeccable provenance

        Hello, thank you for your concerns regarding the Fuhrer Plaque, however the plaque you have posted for comparrission is of an entirely different metal. The Fuhrer plaque is well documented in early references and certainly four metals are known to have been used in the original castings. The example I sold via e-stand was of zinc construction, which over a period of time zinc is vunerable to corrosion known as "zinc pest". Zinc pest in later stages of corrossion can actually"eat" the metal away completely.
        Regards Martin
        Last edited by Martin Harding; 12-09-2007, 03:59 PM.

        Comment

          #5
          Zinc Based Cast

          The Fuhrer Plaque originally came in a Black presentation case. And if you refer to mine you will see it is perfectly flat, so to seat perfectly in to the case. the one posted for comparrision is not flat and strangely shows no signs of wear.
          regards Martin
          Last edited by Martin Harding; 12-09-2007, 04:04 PM.

          Comment

            #6
            corrosion might soften the details but does it also round sharp corners? Please look at the top left corner.

            Also there are hardly any details in the hair area of the plaque. Ate the corrosion everything away?

            Martin, I started the thread here to hear opinions from our experienced collectors. If they say the plaque is fine it should help to sell it. If it turns out to be bad you can return it to Niemann, because he gives life long return right. You can't loose in this.

            Comment

              #7
              Pehaps if I explain a little more in depth the nature of zinc, it is a metal that corrodes after many years and softens, since the Plaque I sold does not have it's original case it would make far more sense for the corners to have lost definition (I hope this information helps) there is a gold wash applied to the surface perhaps post war and to cover the corrosion, this would of course affect the details to the hair.
              Regarding your thread would help me sell it statement, you already knew that I had sold it as you sent a PM stating it was a fake to the buyer, before you started a thread didn't you?
              Regards Martin
              Last edited by Martin Harding; 12-09-2007, 04:12 PM.

              Comment

                #8
                Hecklers

                I for one would like to see the credentials of these hecklers.
                Not only have you shown bad taste on the estand AFTER THE SELL by casting aspersions on this mans plaque.
                It has a lot of corosion which would explain away all of your doubts.
                I for one trust Detlev's word over you two hecklers any day.
                Bug off.
                Jimmy

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Martin Harding View Post
                  Impeccable Provenance

                  With Reference To The Fuhrer Plaque, Usually I Do Not Reveal My Contacts However On This This Occassion I Will. The Fuhrer Plaque Was Purchased By Myself From Detlev Niemann In Hamburg Some Condiderable Time Ago. To Even Consider Calling This Plaque A Fake You Would Have To Back It Up With Hard Facts And I Am Afraid On This Occassion It Is Not Only It's Provenance That Is Not In Question. But It Can Be Clearly Seen In The Scans This Is A Zinc Based Cast With The Gold Wash Absorbing In To The Metal Which In This Is A Process Taking About Seventy Years. Further more if you actually had a knowledge of these plaques (which evidently you do not) you would see the characteristic blistering that occurs with a zinc based cast that is a period Third Reich era Plaque. First And Formost I Am An Antique Dealer And I Am Conversant With Metals. To State "i Think It Is A Fake" Is Simply Not Good Enough Without You Back It Up With Facts, In This Case You Are Very Much Mistaken And It Is Strange How Nothing Was Said Until It Actually Sold. There Is A Dedication On The Plaque That Anyone With Even A Shred Of Knowledge Can Easily Tell This Is Indeed 100% Original. In Actual Fact Half The Illustrations In Angolia's Books Are Of Reproduction. Thank You For Putting Doubt In My Buyer's Mind Though And If It Was Indeed Fake I Would Not Mind But As It Is Not I Am Far From Impressed By amateur assessments
                  Regards Martin
                  Martin, anyone here can question an item. Please refrain from attacking or talking down to them. You condencending attitude doesn't make the item any more real or fake. They are well within thier rights to ask questions. Discuss the item only.
                  pseudo-expert

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I opened the thread after I saw your item on the e-stand - which I think is every forum members right, correct?

                    Funny that corrosion can not only soften the details and eat details away, it can also add material - please see the photo.


                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jimmy View Post
                      I for one would like to see the credentials of these hecklers.
                      Not only have you shown bad taste on the estand AFTER THE SELL by casting aspersions on this mans plaque.
                      It has a lot of corosion which would explain away all of your doubts.
                      I for one trust Detlev's word over you two hecklers any day.
                      Bug off.
                      Jimmy
                      Jimmy, we are a collective comunity. Perhaps they have just now seen the item. If you were the buyer would you not want to know? What proof is there in the thread that it comes from Detlev? I'm not sure what value the phrase "bug off" has to the discussion.
                      pseudo-expert

                      Comment

                        #12
                        please look at the ear lobe area. The shallow point in the middle is filled up on the corroded plaque.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Yes I would like to be informed if I was the buyer but by private message and then If I wanted it discussed I would be the one to instigate it. Not a third party after the fact.
                          Don "bug off" means just that. It is totally in bad manners to do this. And they should back off and let the buyer do his thing.
                          And you saying there is no proof it came from Detlev is a slap in this mans face, His word should suffice. I know I'm on thin ice with you being a moderator and all. But right is right and wrong is wrong.
                          Real or fake is not my concern just the attitude of some of the players is wrong for a collective community.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Fuhrer Plaque

                            Hello Dan, yes you have a valid point and I agree with the fact buyer's need to be protected if items are not authentic. Regarding the Detlev statement "what proof do we have" that is indeed harsh though. perhaps I should post the original invoice if my integrity is to be questioned. however I did state this would not be sufficent argument to prove authenticity, the above points and pictures should be sufficent to do that.
                            Ok now the ear lobes are circled, perhaps I need enlightening to the point of the excercise as the Fuhrer plaque you posted is of a differnet metal all together mine is of a ZINC CONSTRUCTION
                            Regards Martin

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jimmy View Post
                              Real or fake is not my concern just the attitude of some of the players is wrong for a collective community.
                              I actually do care about real or fake.

                              If saving a member some money by pointing out a questionable item is bad attitude, than I prefer bad attitude.

                              Like I said before, I started the thread here when I saw the item for sale for the first time today.

                              What is your opinion about the item Jimmy?

                              P.S. I did PM with the potential buyer before starting the thread

                              Comment

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