Social Welfare Medal - repro???

[emilitaria_usmc]

Silvered zinc, 38 mm, 21.8 gm, 3 mm thick

Someone told me this was a fake. I think it is original. Am I right or wrong?

[Gregorio Torres]

Usually this kind of medals is not made in zink, but I can´t see anything definitly wrong on this item. Maybe a late war example?.

[Peppe864]

Here is some pictures on the actual medal that I received, I am the one who claimed it fake.

I bought the medal without any ribbon, so the ribbon is a postwar ribbon that I put on.







So please tell me this is a good one *lol*

Fat chance............................................ .

[emilitaria_usmc]

Dear Petri

The medal you received is the same one pictured above in my post.
Both pictures show a nick on the eagle's right wing in line with the cross.
Both pictures also show nicks on the top right arm of the cross that match.

If you measure the medal you received I am sure it will match the measurements and weight I have posted.
In the email you sent me today you state and I quote:

"The one you posted is a picture on a original zincer."

But this is the exact medal you received ... an original zincer.
You also accused me in your email that I switched medals.
This is not true.
Your obv. and rev. photos match my photos.

Also note: the term "zincer" does not mean that the medal is struck in pure zinc. This could be a medal made of an alloy of zinc, lead, and other metals. Yes, the Germans actually used lead in some of their alloys! This medal probably contains both and is still original.

very best regards
Dan

[Peppe864]

I saw that the one you posted is the one you sent me, but the pics you have posted is not the best quality, so I did look just hastely and it looked like another one, so that was my bad, sorry.

Now back to the medal, yes this is the same medal, but in your pics it looks like a zincer, but when you look at my pics, which are of better quality (and can get even better if necessary) you can clearly see things that aren´t so good, you see the cast marks for gods sake!!!

IMO this is a fake, and I would like to hear more opinions on the thing.

[emilitaria_usmc]

Dear Petri

Here is a larger picture of the medal I mailed to you:

x450obv.jpg

You can match the zinc bubbles in the field of your obverse and my obverse to verify that they match.
They both have a matching small rim nick at 9 o'clock.
This should leave no doubt that both medals match.
My pictures show a bit more detail because I use studio lights for my photos.

sincerely yours,
Dan

[emilitaria_usmc]

Dear Petri

You posted 4 minutes ahead of me while I was composing this new post.
So I didn't see it.
Since then I have made edits as new thoughts came to mind.
OK, I am glad you admit the medals are the same.
At least we both agree on that now.

By cast marks I think you are referring to the line on the rim?
That could be caused from using a die collar used on the earlier tomback SW medal which is thinner.

Who else has 3 mm thick zinc SW medals to post?
Do they have the same rim marks?
Post the weight in grams along with photos.

Dan

[Peppe864]

Hello Dan!

I understood that you "missed" my post. Sorry for the "bickering".

Let´s see where this leads, it is very interesting, I will during the day try to find some pictures of a zincer to post.

I am still not convinced this is the real deal.

[Peppe864]

This is a picture that I found on a zincer.....

[Peppe864]

some more pics.

The so called silvered zinc on the left and and on the right a original buntmetall one with a white ribbon tied to to the ring.

[emilitaria_usmc]

Petri
You have a beautiful example of the early thinner medal there. It has a very lusterous finish because the underlying metal is not porous and not as reactive to dirt, air, and water. What you call buntmetal I call tombac.

If you lay both down on a table, the top of the early one should match the line on the rim of the zincer. I just verified this with a ruler against my screen in a number of places. I don't think this is a coincidence.

I think this is evidence of using an old die collar - not a casting line.
Dan

[Peppe864]

Hello Dan!

This social welfare medal I bought from you still puzzles me, I will show it to some people on a local gun show that collect these kind of medals, so they can see it live and tell what they think.

It will be interesting, so again sorry for jumping to conclusions to fast, sometimes you get carried away.

It will be very interesting to investigate this one.

[emilitaria_usmc]

Dear Petri
Yes, very interesting! That line surprised me too! If it is a genuine medal, the die collar is the only explanation that makes sense.

Also, some of these late war medals and badges that are the same size vary tremendously in weight. I weigh and measure all my medals and badges. I see supposedly zinc medals and badges that weigh way more than they should. I have to conclude many German firms were adding lead in with their zinc. This must have been a very common practice for late war German manufacturers.

[Peppe864]

Now the results from the weekend.

I got some responde from differnet european collcetors about this medal.

One dealer thought it was original but very heavyly cleaned/polished.

2 other dealers said fake and another one said possible late war original.

So it is hard to know exactly, probably an original, but not 100 % textbox, it is up to the buyer/seller to decide what they think if for sale....

[James Noble]

Here’s my mid 40’s issued Social Welfare medal. 38mm X 3mm 21 grams.