Total confusion about HJ ranks.

[Kurt Meyer]

Hi all,


I'm building a early HJ leader with a early HJ cap and breeches.

The cap has a M29 SA Eagle on it ( There are no signs of a HJ diamond)
So what I heard this tells something about the rank of the person who wear this cap?

And i've got a breeches but from which rang till which rang did they use this breeches trousers? ( The NCO wear these right?)


I hope you can help me.

Some pictures :








Cheers,

Michael

[redline09]

i have an old hitler youth book by f.j.stephens (1973)

the eagle sits at the top of the cap and the hj pin sits on the band in all patterns apart from the basic 1933 pattern for all ranks


in this book you have 2 patterns the 1933 and 1936 pattern ( 3 types in each)~



you have the 1933 pattern-

cap worn by all ranks from hj boys upto and including unterbannfuhrer = the cap is a plane peak cap with leather strap and one hj dimond at the top and blue piping on the brim ( which indicates membership in oberbann)

pattern worn only by bannfuhrers distinguished by having silver piping and yellow cap band (leather strap) - with eagle and hj badge.

overgebietsfuhrer cap, which has gold piping and scarlet cap band (leather strap) - with eagle and hj badge.

..........

in the 1936 pattern you have-

pattern for hj boys upto and including the rank of unterbannfuhrer, yellow piping indicated communication section (leather strap) eagle and hj pin


(black band?)pattern for bannfuhrer and oberbannfuhrer ranks, rose piping for motor hj sections. ( basic cords, dosent say what colour) - with eagle and hj pin.

(black band?) gold piping and gold cords worn buy the ranks of gebietsfuhrer, obergebietsfuhrer and stabchef der hj ( also has eagle and hj pin)

--edit--

hope this helps

[redline09]

there was also the very first pattern uniform, adopted around 1929. the hj badge was affiixed to the brim of the cap. in 1933 this pattern was replaced by the hj diamond.

( the badge was the one with the swastica on the rising sun.

[Kurt Meyer]

Thanks for your reply.

But I stil dont get it.

Or you dont know exacly what I mean?

The hats you sad have all a HJ diamond.

This is my hat :



There are no traces of a HJ diamond.

And if this website is correct :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_a...e_Hitler_Youth

What kind of schouderboards did the unterbahnfuhrer have?

And is the rank of Obenrottenfuhrer also good with this hat?
Or could this not fit with the breeches?

Hope you can help me.

Cheeers,

Michael

[redline09]

yes i see,

im not sure really, what i'll do is scan in some images for you ( there just old drawings but your get an idea)

[Kurt Meyer]

Yes that will be fine!

I did'nt know HJ was so difficult

[Kurt Meyer]

I've found a picture with a oberscharfuhrer but he has a early hat with a diamond and a leather visor.

But the leather visor... is this a early model or a late?
And a hat with a diamond to?

Cheers,

Michael

[redline09]

heres a few images from my book, most are illustrations ( not the best, but its from the 1970s )

try the 6th one down.



http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2851/22373149pv1.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4481/17618218ia6.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/125/49503725ja4.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1648/91901921gu1.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3834/68377124pl4.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2096/39916381pc0.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/841/27628563vs0.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3516/60260432av8.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5599/14105468hg0.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2795/10hw7.jpg

[Anthony T]

Could your cap have had a round traditions pin under the eagle instead of the diamond?

[Kurt Meyer]

Thanks for the pictures!

Do you mean that cap I own?
As far I know there are no traces of a HJ diamond or a early round pin.