Officer sleeve eagles help

[Kraft]

Hi,
I would like to ask you for opinions on these two officers sleeve birds. They are offered on some local ebay as originals. The cutted one seems good to me, however with the oval shaped I am not sure. Thanks for your advices.

[Kraft]

Any opinions, please? I do not want to buy fake as I am not well experienced and these officer insignia are very hard to tell for me. Thanks for watching. :-)

[Kraft]

Odd is for me contrast of very slight mothing of cloth and very good state of bullion in round shaped badge. The cut off one seems more consistent in age...

[darekm]

If a moth attacks the wool, it will leave the bullion unaltered, so you can have a badge that is otherwise mint, but with mothing.

[11C]

Both are as right as rain.

[Kraft]

11C thank you! It sounds like good news. These are mine field.

[Kraft]

Any more opinion to be “little more” sure?

[W.Unland]

Hello,

Officer's eagles are extremely hard to authenticate as each is a one off creation. That said there are standards that I look for, and there are accepted patterns seen in many originals.

To start with the second example with the swirl at the bottom of the wreath, I believe these to be original late war production with a simplified design to speed production. I believe they were factory produced. Your example looks good to me with expected wear and age. That said not all collectors like these. I have had three, one on mottled cotton, and My examination has shown no indication of post war production.

Now the first one. Lately I have seen many ovalform eagles that are basically brand new looking. Weitze has a couple for sale at present. They look as if they were made yesterday, and in my opinion probably were. The pattern and execution however is perfect. Your example fits into this category for me. The wire work is generally very good. The pattern is ok, but the cross hatching on the body is really odd and unlike anything that I have ever seen before. I also take note of the tinsel wire that runs down the center of the wreath. It has no breaks and is in perfect condition. On used 70 year old insignia this is almost always almost totally worn off.
Unless this eagle was sealed away for 70 years and never handled this is suspicious to me. This tinsel is extremely fragile, and just doesn't last.

In short I personally would not buy the first eagle. It may in fact be original but I have doubt. The mother backing reminds me of good repro NCO eagles that were embroidered on used overcoat wool that was honestly worn and moth tracked.

Of course this is only my opinion. I just don't trust officer's eagles with no wear. Even collectors handling these things will break down the wire with time. Lack of wear, weird body details and unusual head execution are all alarm signs for me.

Regards,
William Unland

[Kraft]

Dear Mr. Unland,
thank you very much for spending time to comment these. I really appreciate it. In this case I let the oval one go and buy just the second one. Thank you.

Regards,
Petr.

[Dave C.]

I would say Bill has summed these up well. Officer eagles are increasing difficult to judge from only pictures. That first one also strikes me as being 'off', it's a little too crisp looking, on oval, lacking what one would view as normal wear from overall these years, and the breast cross hatch is 'weak' in execution...these are some of the first things that jump out at me despite being fairly well done. That would not be one for me. The second example with the rounded bottom is viewed as an acceptable period pattern, as Bill mentioned, and you will find several examples posted in the past with a little searching for officer eagles here.

[Kraft]

Thanks for next opinion, Dave C. It is becoming harder to get experience in times of quality reproductions or it is quite expensive...

Regards,
Petr.