Early Police cap eagle

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Does anyone have a picture, or an actual cap, with this early police eagle in wear? What time frame was it worn in?

Regards,

Gordon

[W.Unland]

I have seen these for sale as early police insignia but I know of no regulation specifying such an insignia, nor any NS-Zeit,civil police organization wearing these.

The eagle itself does indeed resemble the early M34 cap eagles sans wreath, but wear as shown here is unknown to me.

Regards,
W.Unland

[ironfist]

hello

I think you may find this is just unfinished or missing its wreath.
I posted a reply to one very similar saying early first pattern and I got jumped on from a great height. I was told It must have a wreath.
Regards Pete

[Jean-Claude]

Hi Gordon,

I have seen a few of the "unwreated" birds over the years and they are always of this same very distinguishable (large square head variation). Not sure what they were used for but I beleive they are period original.

Interesting to note that you find the same thing for the 1936 version (?) of this eagle when it was redesigned to face right (instead of left): the same veined eagle like the police M36 insignia but different than the M36 beamte (often incorrectly called M36 NSDAP eagle) which has no veins in the feathers. This 2nd pattern veined wreathless bird is described as a "Zoll Beamte" eagle in the Assmann catalogue but it doesnt necessarily mean the 1st pattern wreathless bird served the same purpose. Picts of second pattern type attached

Regards

JC

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my thread. So the eagle remains a mystery. I looked in the reprint of the Assman catalogue and was surprised when it wasn't there but other shirt lived, 33 to 35, eagles were. I posted the eagle in the Political sub forum first and was told by two individuals there that it was an early Police eagle hence my thread here in the police forum. Once again, thanks for your assistance.

Regards,

Gordon

[Dave C.]

Gordon, would ahve any province on this example posted to help support it being period made (solid source?)? Is it the correct size, matching a police insignia? Maybe a unfinished component but not seen in wear like this by police. Some problems I have are the overall design, the non cutout areas of the swas, the irregular dimpling of the swas, the poor details in the wings...is it possibly one of the Reddick generations of the reproductions? They do use this fat head design. I've seen a couple others complete with wreaths but have always found them of questionable quality.

[JoeW]

Pete, I am curious why you suggest it is an early first pattern police eagle? True, the eagle resembles the first pattern Prussian police eagle adopted after the takeover of Prussian by the Nazis and Göring becoming Minister President of Prussia without the wreath of laurel leaves. But the first pattern eagle is well documented by description and photograph in the Prussian regulations and it has a wreath. It was noted as the new insignia. So I don't understand the idea of an "early first pattern eagle".

And then the Daluege/Frick faction lost the power struggle with Himmler and his design of the fatter eagle with a wreath of oak leaves was adopted in June 1936. It is to me an unknown and possible suspect eagle, considering it never appearing in the vast amount of photographic evidence available to researchers over these past decades.

[JoeW]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my thread. So the eagle remains a mystery. I looked in the reprint of the Assman catalogue and was surprised when it wasn't there but other shirt lived, 33 to 35, eagles were. I posted the eagle in the Political sub forum first and was told by two individuals there that it was an early Police eagle hence my thread here in the police forum. Once again, thanks for your assistance.

Regards,

Gordon

Gordon, I was curious about your comment that it was identified as an early police eagle over on the Political Forum. Stonemint replied " Gordon--it is in the design of a 1st model police eagle (sans wreath)." Military replied thta he had one too but in silver and with a wreath. I don't take that as identifying the eagle as definitely an early first pattern worn by police. I think they just replied that it was similar to the first pattern police eagle.

[jmcm]

I found this one. Eagle facing the same way.

[Dave C.]

I found this one. Eagle facing the same way.

The early '34 examples all faced to the right.

[ironfist]

why

Joe w
I guess I didn't make myself clear.
I thought it was an early first pattern as I had seen this type of bird and knew it was that of an early type.
This is where I made my mistake ,I presumed (mother of all fxxx ups) as there was no wreath it was earlier .
I made that mistake a lot of years ago.I do remember getting a lot of sarcasm
not very encouraging to new comers.
Helping is far better than mocking ,that is why this is a great forum.
Regards Pete