Full Dress Ordnungspolizei Uniforms

[W.Unland]

IN RE: Officer's Cartouche Box

Dear Joe,

Those photos of the officer's cartridge box being worn in the center of the back are really interesting, thank you for contributing. After considering them however; I don't think that they are reflective of the "correct" manner of wear. I think it rather reflects a unit level affectation.

The cartridge box was worn to continue the tradition dating back some hundred years. Originally it actually carried carbine cartridges. It was worn with a cross belt and sat between the right hip and buttocks. This position was most advantages for a right handed troop to retrieve a cartridge with his right hand to charge a carbine being held in the left hand. Wearing the box in the small of the back renders it un-reachable by the right hand. The cross belt naturally sits with its load over the opposite hip, not the center of the back.

After taking apart my display I am now of the opinion that my description above regarding how the box was to be worn was WRONG.

As these photos show the cross belt was attached in the same manner as the NCO box. The ends were passed through the leather loops and affixed to the knobs on the opposite side.

Because the central leather loop seemed to naturally fall to the central "knob" on the bottom of the box I assumed that it simply looped around the belt as shown in the third photo of this series.

[W.Unland]

Looped around the belt.

HOWEVER, the leather loop clearly does not fit tightly and the top is canted and not straight.

[W.Unland]

Consequently, it does appear that this central leather loop was affixed to the right button on the tunic skirt in exactly the same manner as that of the NCO rig shown earlier.

The photos shown above suggest that in that case this leather tab was attached to the LEFT button rather than the right, resulting in the box sitting in the small of the back. As suggested I believe that this was a unit level aberration, and not the correct manner of wear.

If you look at the photos, wearing the box in that manner results in a slanted, off kilter box. When it is attached to the right button as shown here the box sits level and presents in a more uniform manner. Consequently I believe that the "correct" manner of wear is exactly the same as that of NCO's, ie; attached to the right rear skirt button of the tunic.

I do apologize for the confusing posts. These full dress items have been rarely discussed and I have had to work through the manner of wear without reference.



I would invite anyone with additional photos or uniform items to post them here to create a reference for all of our future use.

Regards,
William Unland

[Dave C.]

Bill, excellent work at assembling your displays! It takes a lot of time, effort, & commitment (along with $$$) to stick with it and put these pieces together but well worth it in the end

[JoeW]

Bill, I don't know if it was unit affectation or just lazy officers. Going through the Parade Dress regulations, I note no description of how the accessories were to be worn. And if you look closely at the photo I posted, you can see the officer on the right has his box attached to the right coat tail button. It seems the officers didn't have any full length mirrors to view their work. Also, in the left background are some Mot.Gendarmerie NCOs in parade dress who are wearing S84/98 bayonets in their belt frogs, rather than the Pol Seitengewehrs. This is according to orders for the Mot.Gendarmerie.

I hope others might contribute some photos, but they are scarce to find in my collection. Frontal views are around, but who took photos of the back of people? Anyway, good show Bill.

[JoeW]

Well, I found some more by remembering to look in my Police Standart/Flags file. The first photo is of a rare shot of the back of the Polizei DE Standard in Berlin in September 1937 that I cropped. Schupo officers wearing the cartridge box at an angle dead center over the tail flaps.



The second photo is from one of the post-1937 RPT Police magazines and shows Hitler greeting the senior officers of the Order Police. Hitler is shaking hands with another General officer. Notice the haphazard appearance of the cartridges boxes centered over the tail flaps. No unit affectation here I think.



And finally the Schupo NCO Wache guarding the newly presented Police flags at the 1937 RPT. Again, canted at an angle and centered. I don't think they appreciated the history of the wear of cartridge boxes.



So I am thinking there was no order to the wearing of the bandelier and cartouche box. Just so it landed somewhere over their tail flaps was the only concern.

[W.Unland]

I concede. You have presented more than adequate proof that the officer's box was worn dead center. It looks stupid there but I can not argue with period photographs.

Thanks your efforts in finding and posting the answer to the question.

I am most surprised that the NCOs are wearing it in the same manner. I will have to change my assumptions all around.

Indeed, no apparent respect for tradition or functionality

Regards,
Bill Unland

[JoeW]

The traffic police was not an actual "branch" of the Ordnungspolizei, but rather a schutzpolizei "assignment. None the less, personnel so assigned were given a full dress uniform utilizing their white cotton open collar tunics. A white lacquered tschako, with gold eagle insignia and a black plume was worn. A brown belt and cartridge box belt with gold colored buckle and fittings were specified for use, fitted with a brown cartridge box with gold colored eagle insignia.

The black Prussian Schutzpolizei trousers continued to be worn with the white tunic throughout the NS-zeit. In effect the Prussian SchuPo traffic uniform was essentially adopted with the replacement of the Weimar era insignia with the NS insignia.

Once again, the NCO grade leather cartridge box cross belt is rarely seen. Like the Schutzpolizei white leather gear, these belts were the property of the unit, not the individual officers. they were returned to supply after use. At the end of the war the leather was repurposed, and few examples have survived. This particular example is dated 1937, which seems to be common to all of the parade specific equipment. Once the war started the wearing of full dress was severely curtailed and no new equipment produced.

I thought I would elaborate on the subject of Bill's posting of his Verkehrspolizei parade dress uniform ensemble. I was digging in my files looking up some references for an article in preparation for Bender's "The Military Advisor" and I found a copy of a police manual I had forgotten I had. It is PDV 27 "Vorschrift f.d.Verwendung der Schutzpolizei und der Gendarmerie (Einzeldienst) im täglichen Dienst, Teil I Abs.A-D, Schutzpolizei" from 1940. I glanced through the table of contents and found the section on Verkehrsdienst. It was as Bill pointed out, traffic duty at Schupo Revier command level. But what I found interesting was the three branches of the Verkehrsdienst: Verkehrsposten- street traffic control posts, mot. Verkehrsbereitschaft-motorized traffic response unit, and Verkehrsunfallbereitschaftdienst-Traffic accident response service.

Now Bill has presented his excellent Verkehrspolizei dress uniform ensemble that would be for the Verkehrsposten. And what of the parade dress for the mot. Verkehrsbereitschaft? Well I do not have my traffic uniform or headgear anymore and I can't find the picture I took of it dressed in parade uniform. But the Knötel folio shows us this parade dress uniform.



And what of the Verkehrsunfallbereitschaftdeinst? Well the image in Knötel of this unit is surprising. No white uniforms, just police green.



The white was necessary for service in traffic for visibility, but this unit of the Verkehrsdienst wore only the standard Schupo uniform. So I would surmise their parade dress would be standard Schupo dress: green uniform and shako with white accessories. But they were still part of the traffic service.

[ccj]

Very nice displays. I'm very impressed with the completeness of each uniform display and the knowledge.