Cuxhaven sleeve eagle ???

[jwh44]

Hello
What do you feel about this bird ?
Regards
Alain

[germanpolice]

usually a tough call on this one, as this type of eagle is heavily faked, however with the thin body and the long neck I believe this one is a good one

[THEPOLIZEIMAN]

Looks good to me.

[W.Unland]

I would not have it.

W.Unland

[Dave C.]

Has a Cuxhaven insignia been posted before??? Seems like I seen another but I just can't seem to relocate it... I'm also not 'sold' on this one.

[Randy Flieger]

Sleeve Eagle

Some of the more experienced collectors have already posted comments, but this insignia has a lot of question marks for me. I'm not sure either way. But seems to have some loose outlines in some areas (not symmetrical), head is offset a lot, perhaps a lot of extra border wrapped around the back side, and the white body on back side. Are the acorns defined really well? Does the lowest feather on the wings line up with other feathers?

Thanks for posting, Randy

[Tom Pearcy]

Luxhaven, the head does look weak and the heavy back stitching primarily in the chest area would send up flags. Lettering and construction looks good, it might have a chance.

[jwh44]

Thanks to all for your comments.
Regards
Alain

[germanpolice]

from a period photo

[W.Unland]

Yes we know the repro is based on a real pattern, and is very close to the original BUT they are different and in my opinion only they eagle in the photo you post and the one that started this thread are not the same. Most significantly note the difference in definition of the ridge along the back of the head and the bulge around the eye. On the fake it is ill defined and weak on the original quite distinct. Add to that the fact that ALL of this particular fake were and are made on a machine that causes a white filled in body on the reverse and it becomes highly suggestive that the incident insignia may be suspect.

Of course this is again just MY opinion and not in any way definitive. Collectors must make their own determinations on these contentious issues.

W. Unland

[germanpolice]

Bill I agree with what you are saying however from your own observations this eagle appears to be original.

[W.Unland]

Since that comparison was posted by me some years ago I have come to the conclusion that there are at least 4 variations of this pattern. Two I consider good two not so much. One thing that I am fairly certain of is that those with poorly defined details on the head in total, AND filled in backs are suspect. As I have never purchased one of the fakes I have never really been able to examine one closely, save from photos.

My comments were to the FACT that the insignia in your photo and the one offered for comments are different. The insignia in the photo has well defined details which good examples do. Early versions of the fake did as well BUT the one that started this discussion has poorly defined details, a characteristic of the later fakes. This pattern of eagle is a headache for me, as it should be for anyone serious about avoiding fakes.

If this response of yours is an attempt at a "gotcha" moment so be it. I stand humbled.

Knowledge is added to with the advent of new information and photographs. You have a lot of photos which have been kept from the discussion and perhaps you have some additional knowledge, I don't know.

All of that said I am STILL not comfortable with the insignia being discussed, and as originally stated I personally would not have bought it when I was collecting. If others are happy with it that is all that really matters.

I have ceased doing examinations and presentations on the forum as I do not want to imply that I have any particular expertise. I was only a small time collector of limited means who at times took this all too seriously. My opinion is/was only valid for myself anyway.

I will try to wean myself off of offering comments in the future. It is a bad habit from days past. I can't post photos any more even if I were so inclined.

Regards,
W. Unland

[germanpolice]

Bill was not trying to dis you, I was also considering the thickness of the first insignia posted as well, the one thing that the fakers cannot seem to get right is the thickness of eagles. take a look at the Cuxhaven again, the wording is thick and in the correct configuration for the time, the thickness of the knuckles on the wings, the small spaces between the fletching, the claws are correct for this type, and the oak leaves are thicker that they would be on a repro. The only thing that would concern me on this eagle is that the speckling on the neck infiltrates the top part of the body, I have never seen that before, is that a good thing or a bad, time will tell.

I also cannot post photos anymore, I use photo bucket and drop the photo link in the post dialogue box