I want it! Very nice Ron R. and when you are ready I will take it off your hands.
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First of all, I thank you Dmv for bringing this up. I for one am fascinated with investigating fakes, and have avoided buying the items you have suggested because I my self have been skeptical. I have been collecting for a short time now, the first thing I did was spend every waking moment learning about fakes. It saddens me that this forum has no specific place to discus fakes and why it is believed to be fake. Perhaps that will be the next thread I start. For the most part when people say it is a fake they just assume they are right and every one ells will believe them with out telling you why it is a fake, with out describing the details of why it is a fake defeats the purpose of telling some one it is fake. Will you please tell us your book and the findings you found on the items you suggested are fakes? I can agree with you on the fact that for some reason these are the majority of the fakes on the market related to sport. All that I have seen in person are fakes. With that said I will also argue whether or not there was ever a real one of these that are faked. My question is why fake D.D.A.C., DLV, NSBO and also NSFK and not NSKK.Originally posted by Dmv View PostNice stuff posted guys!
Hope you don't mind me pointing out some that are fakes in my book...
Post: 8 left, 22, 25 and 65 i.m.o.
Can't comment on the Police insignia, but these have been faked pretty good, but need a police guy to comment on them.
D.D.A.C. witch one are you implying is fake? The 2 versions have been found time and time again on pendant's. However I do know that the one version witch I think you are talking about seems to be faked allot. I have not had one in my possession to test yet.
DLV. I have read some where that at one point after the war the machining pattern was found for this item and some one started making them. True or not I do not know. The DLV was dissolved in 1937 and replaced with the NSFK. I for one would like to find out when these started to pop up on the market.
NSBO was established in 1928. There is a NSBO patch that is a real patch that is believed to be for sport use and made much different then this. I am however skeptical that this patch in question was ever used for sport. If this patch can pass all the tests then I believe it was used on pendants and arm bands. The DAF ended up absorbing the NSBO in 1935. The DAF sport patch is made the same as the SA group sport patches.
SA / SS. The other eagle in question is the SA/SS early eagle. I have examined some in person and found them to be fake. Some respected people have said they have a real one. I for one would like to examine a so called real one to confirm for my self that they do exist. If they do exist they are rare to the point that if some one made fakes then they would have to have an original to be used for the pattern or would have to have an original template, this idea also goes for the other items in question. This is another one of those items that I would like to fined out when they came to the market. At the time this eagle was created, the common method of making sport patches was chain stitching and should look like the one RonR just listed #75 witch is why I am skeptical on this ever existing. With that said I have a few ideas on dating insignias that I am working on compiling.Comment
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Ron R. the DJ and HJ used this same eagle but it had the sword and hammer in its claws. What do you know about this eagle you posted? I have seen it in photos.Comment
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Just came in the mail today. I had a chance to get a strip of these. This is the NSDAP sport insignia that would be put on the breast of there worm up PT jacket. The wingspan from tip to tip is 11.7 cm. I am giving every one hear a heads up that I will be listing one for sale next week so if there is any one on this thread that is looking for one pm me.Comment
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NSBO sport shirt insignia
Shown here are comparisons of the NSBO sport shirt insignia. The fake is on the right. Note the sharp demarcation between the insignia and the square cloth backing on the post war example. The fakes tend to be thicker and have more of a synthetic feel than a cotton feel. The Ges Gesch marking is often upside down on the fakes. The fakes glow under a black light. These pictures were taken in a pitch black room. I attempted to show a black light comparison. The real one appears to glow a bit, but this is a reflection from the fake. In a pitch black room, the real one does not glow at all. I will post rear views as well.Comment
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NSBO sport shirt insignia
Rear views. Fake on right.Comment
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BSW Arm Factory
Here's the rare BSW German Arms Factor Sport's Shirt Emblem.Comment
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BSW Arms Factory
Nice!Comment
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Belgian Police sport shirt insignia
Here is an interesting item. Reportedly brought back by a vet who was a member of the 4th Armored Division. The vet reportedly found it in a supply depot in Belgium. It has a wingspan of 3 3/4 inches and is printed. It does not glow at all. To me, it resembles a 1st pattern police sport shirt eagle. This was likely made by a private company. Not a very attractive piece, but interesting non-the-less. I am not sure what to make of it.Comment
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Political Leader/SA Sport Shirt Insignia
Here is an example of the early PL/SA sport shirt insignia that I consider to be authentic. It is the only one like it that I have ever seen. It is made of a thin cottony material and does not glow at all. Until I found this one, I was beginning to think that authentic examples may not exist. Note how smooth the transition is between the insignia and the square backing. The fakes appear to have well defined borders between the insignia and the square cloth backing. Also, I noticed that this does not have a Ges Gesch marking ( neither does my authentic NSBO example).Comment
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Political Leader/SA Sport Shirt Insignia-fake
Here is what I consider to be a typical post war example. It is not mine, but I have seen MANY of this type. It likely glows like a Christmas tree. Note the well defined border between the insignia and the backing.Comment
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Political Leader/SA & DLV Sport Shirt Insignia
Shown here is the authentic PL/SA insignia with a fake DLV insignia. I have yet to find a real DLV insignia. Unfortunately, I now believe that the DLV insignia that is shown in my book set--"Sport and the Third Reich"--is a post war example. I continue to learn about this subject every day! Note that the DLV insignia glows brightly. The SA insignia does not glow at all. This picture was taken in a pitch black room and the SA insignia lights up a bit here because of the reflection from the DLV insignia. I am not too good at these dark room shots.Comment
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Nice Ron! I notice it is made the exact way the three I posted are made.Originally posted by Ron Weinand View PostComment
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Thank you RobN for making a response to the current discussion, I was hoping you would. You were the one I was referencing about having what is believed to be original NSBO and SA/SS/PL eagle. It looks to me that the PL/SA and the NSBO would feel the same in your hands as if they where made from the same material, would this be accurate Rob?
The Police that you show seems similar to how the funeral sash patches are made.Comment
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NSBO, PL/SA sport insignia
Yes, they do feel very much the same. When you run your fingers over the surface of these patches, the feel is very smooth and flat with no ridges.Comment
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