Badge Of Merit For The Aircraft Industry

[Gregorio Torres]

IMHO the one with raised lettering is a fake, just because there are other fakes with exactly the same details in the reverses, specially this bubble-lettering and this pin. Micro-patina is a usefull test, just as the blacklight maybe for cloths, i.e., but when another more evident proof do exists, we don´t need more tests.
Just my opinion, and please keep calm.

[Dave C.]

I would agree with the last part of the above post, keep calm. Leave the trolls, question of education, etc. out of this and keep on point with the meritts of the items being discussed.

[Rick C]

My “motives”: I saw Ron’s pin, I liked Ron’s pin, I found its design pleasing but I’m not going to make “pins” or “tinnies” a career. I have a life. I only wanted to know why Jo (whom I’ve spoken to off forum now and again and have no beef with) thought it was bad and did he have PROOF.

“Read More”: While I’m quite sure there’s much written both in print and on every forum pandering to the keyboard warrior experts on every subject and nuance of Third Reich militaria, I don’t have time nor ‘interest’ in the level of dedication to “pins” that you do so I’m here, admiring some neat pins and asking why some are being bashed. That’s ‘why’ this forum exists is it not? Not to have participants tell me to go buy Jo’s book or go someplace else to look for answers.

So, those were my motives sir. I apologize for stepping in to the pins arena where I apparently "troll around". Sorry for having asked “why”? If you find me disrespectful or sarcastic perhaps it’s because I see no effort in answering the innocuous question of why there is but one maker/die for this and thus why Ron’s lapel pin is bad.

I'll leave you all to it.

[Matthew]

That’s ‘why’ this forum exists is it not? Not to have participants tell me to go buy Jo’s book or go someplace else to look for answers.

Seems, you have a misconception why this thread is being fueled and which way it should go, Rick.
Most of it exists because it serves as an arena to prove others wrong.
But, it has nothing to do with originals, reproductions or even with pins in question. It is but a daily meal to feed one's ego. What does not help is others who show up and dare not to sing a praise.
Does anyone honestly think that 'The most knowledgeable enamel badge collector' gives a toss about what you have in your collection or what you buy and collect? Or even what is and is not original?
By his own admission it would serve well, those who come here to learn and share on WAF, to get burned at least once a while.
He invents stuff as he goes along and I don't mean 'micro patina' (though another invention of his). Things like non-shrinking casts and (my new favorite next to 'microscopic image') non abrasive sand paper (SS civil pin was in his own words 'sanded down' with no sanding marks). Yet, very few dare to question the 'most knowledgeable enamel badge collector'. And why would they? The most they can get out of it is being ridiculed for putting forth arguments to support their opinions.
There are usually two scenarios any thread where he's a presence will go: buy my book or check out HJ site for your answers. If you post anything here- you're parroting at best. Stealing at worst.

cheers

Matt

[Jo Rivett]

We view - only the outer edges - the outer rim. We do this with a microscope, so that we can be - 100% crystal - about what we are saying. ESPECIALLY when fakes are being outed, fakes that are being sold everywhere as genuine, yet are not.
Under magnification, you will find no "lies", no trolls waving their "claws of the law" across subjects they have nothing to offer, except insults and outdated, parroted, troll-book facts.

An original Treuewerkabzeichen, on a normal attachment.






_________________________________________________

The FAKE Treuewerkabzeichen - with raised - Boris-the-animal Font.

No need to copy the article, the most important part is below.
Top of the weekend to you all.

[Gary B]

Jo,

What are you saying in any of your posts?

I see pictures of what I assume are macro photos of the edges of what you say is an original piece and a fake piece, flaming microscopes, editorial comments, etc. I see the differences in the edges of the 2 compared pieces but what does that mean?

Additionally, how do you know that these pieces which you deem as fake are made in America? Do you have evidence that they ARE made in America? How do you know they are not made in Lithuania or Poland or China?

Gary B

[Jo Rivett]

Jo,
What are you saying in any of your posts?

I expected that, of course.

• You study original small badges under magnification.
  
• You study fake small badges under magnification.
  
• You analyze many of them, hundreds, thousands.
  
• You select similar areas to view on both original, and fakes.
  
• You note the differences.
  
• You take an interest in period facts, as they relate to the manufacturing of small badges in Germany, as well as the materials that were most commonly used at that time.
  
• You learn how badges are made, from start to finish.
  
• You gain hands-on experience.
  
• You understand, through the observations you make as well as your hands-on experience, what kinds of tooling were used to create the dies used to stamp small badges.

When you view the areas that i have shown above, you will be able to see:

1. How the working die was made.
2. What tooling was used
3. What material(s) were used
4. How it was struck and sheared
5. How it was finished (coated)
6. If any "fake" patina was added
7. And much - much more.

The much more i will not elaborate on, on a public forum, but have elsewhere.

Granted it takes more to completely understand - for someone who has never viewed micro-images, i understand that, but unfortunately cannot do anything about that at the moment.

[Gary B]

"The much more i will not elaborate on, on a public forum, but have elsewhere."


Why the secrecy? And where have you explained your findings? The forum is a place to share information. If you have a book on the subject I understand that you don't want to cover all of your findings on a thread but you have not really elaborated on anything except that you have examined many pins and we must trust you (at least on the forum).


Gary B

[Jo Rivett]

and we must trust you
Gary B

Hi Gary
Only if you wish to sharpen your wits, avoid buying fakes in the future and rid your collection of the already purchased fakes.
Otherwise, no, you do not need to trust anyone, and can march along happy as can be, buying, trading and selling.

[Matthew]

flaming microscope strikes again

Nice shots. I must say I like them all. It would seem you also included a page from your Diary to the bunch. Cool.

So am I reading this right? If we want to sharpen our wits, we should trust you?

I am only asking because I have a boring work day ahead of me and as it happens I have few of my trinkets here and (since its all the rage these days) my microscope (took it for a walk).
Would you be willing to give your brain a bit of a work out? I could take few shots and you could explain what you think it is we're looking at and more importantly if the material is original or not?
Should be a snap for someone who looked at 'literally thousands badges under a microscope'.

cheers

Matt

[Röhm1929]

I have sent the MODs a PM, as a really need to shake a troll, before i proceed. I am away all of this week, and will be back for the weekend, for the "show n tell" (you omitted "show" ) as long as the troll can be silenced. If he cant, then there will be no show, or tell, or Jo Rivett on waf anymore, and this will be my last post.
Until the weekend - or not.

Is he talking about you Matthew? The tone of your post would suggest you as a candidate. Did you miss the previous posters talking about sarcastic comments not helping the conversation?

Anyway, the images posted by Jo Rivett appear to show normal wear and tear patterns on the original badge and rough cutting/filing marks on the fake. Seems fair to assume that there is a drastic difference between the two and I look forward to reading more on this but I suspect that nothing more will be coming unless certain people start talking respectfully instead of this dismissive sniffing and throwing of teddies.

[Matthew]

Dear Rohm/Jo (sorry, I get confused here)

I picked up on the "pick up the microscope and prove me wrong" part of his diary.

well?

[Röhm1929]

So it is you then...

Detective Matthew... If I were Jo as you seem to suspect then I would already know the troll's identity. Why would I need to ask you?

You might have a problem with Jo Rivett but it doesn't automatically follow that everyone else does.

[Matthew]

Enough with small talk and useless chatter Mr. Rohm.

Still waiting on the answer to my post above.

[Röhm1929]

If you are the troll he was on about none of us will get an answer so I suggest that you calm down and get back on topic.