SS Polizei

[chrischa]

Chris, excuse me for getting off track and not fully comprehending your comments. To often we put the fingers in gear before the brain is completely running. But I did want to add that the Heer artillery unit was the one wearing the army uniforms.

Hello.

Quite right.

I have always wondered how these artillerymen felt about becoming SS.

Do you (or anyone else) have a theory about the SS belts?

Regards,
Chris.

[Lambert]

Hello.

Quite right.

I have always wondered how these artillerymen felt about becoming SS.

Do you (or anyone else) have a theory about the SS belts?

Regards,
Chris.

The one on the left with the SS runes could wear his SS belt and maybe the man in the middle is also an SS member, but has not yet stitched his runes on his uniform.
This would´ve maybe been against regulation, but as long no superior interferred, there was no problem. Or they just put the belts on for this picture?!

[PBR]

Hello.

Quite right.

I have always wondered how these artillerymen felt about becoming SS.

Do you (or anyone else) have a theory about the SS belts?

Regards,
Chris.

They actually didn't, they did became Waffen-SS members, not full Allgemeine members, that's pretty different in my opinion.
Many people from LW were drafted to WSS also.

Regarding the buckles, I do have pictures in my personal archive showing Police members issued with EM SS buckles, usually guys of SchuPo Polizei-Regimenter, so, nothing that strange.
I think that was just related to the fact the OrPo was an SS branch, so, sometimes stuff was handed over to Polizei units while needed (see for example SS saharianas etc.etc.)

[PBR]

The one on the left with the SS runes could wear his SS belt and maybe the man in the middle is also an SS member, but has not yet stitched his runes on his uniform.
This would´ve maybe been against regulation, but as long no superior interferred, there was no problem. Or they just put the belts on for this picture?!

IMHO the use of SS buckles by Police has nothing to do with SS membership and SS-Brustabzeichen.
Most of the soldiers wearing the SS-Brustabzeichen used standard Police buckles, as you can clearly see on pictures.

[Zauberflöte]

IMHO the use of SS buckles by Police has nothing to do with SS membership and SS-Brustabzeichen.
Most of the soldiers wearing the SS-Brustabzeichen used standard Police buckles, as you can clearly see on pictures.

Agreed and I would even claim that in rule all Polizei men wore Police buckles, therefore this is very likely just a supply issue of somekind. Strong links between Polizei and SS makes this very possible. In the same way you can find photo evidence of W-SS men with Heer Buckles, RAD with LW and so on...

This Photo has actually in nothing to do with the SS Polizei division as well.

But always nice to see deviations of the standard rules and learn from them.

[chrischa]

Hello.

We know this has nothing to do with the Polizei Division!

Read through the threads.

Regards,
Chris.

Agreed and I would even claim that in rule all Polizei men wore Police buckles, therefore this is very likely just a supply issue of somekind. Strong links between Polizei and SS makes this very possible. In the same way you can find photo evidence of W-SS men with Heer Buckles, RAD with LW and so on...

This Photo has actually in nothing to do with the SS Polizei division as well.

But always nice to see deviations of the standard rules and learn from them.

[chrischa]

Hello TK.

SS is SS.

Don't lecture me on the difference.

We can argue opinion.

Regards,
Chris.

They actually didn't, they did became Waffen-SS members, not full Allgemeine members, that's pretty different in my opinion.
Many people from LW were drafted to WSS also.

Regarding the buckles, I do have pictures in my personal archive showing Police members issued with EM SS buckles, usually guys of SchuPo Polizei-Regimenter, so, nothing that strange.
I think that was just related to the fact the OrPo was an SS branch, so, sometimes stuff was handed over to Polizei units while needed (see for example SS saharianas etc.etc.)

[Zauberflöte]

Hello.

We know this has nothing to do with the Polizei Division!

Read through the threads.

Regards,
Chris.

With all do respect Chris I did, and therefore I felt to make this comment (and so did TK I think).. I know that you know it isn't Pol. division and I didn't claim otherwise, but glad this is settled then.
You asked if someone had a possible theory about the use of SS buckles in the photo, these were my 2 cents.

Best
Frederik

[PBR]

Hello TK.

SS is SS.

Don't lecture me on the difference.

We can argue opinion.

Regards,
Chris.

That's not "my" opinion, it's a fact, and am I reading a bit of attitude in your reply?

Not all Waffen-SS members were full (Allgemeine) SS members: Waffen-SS soldiers that had not full SS membership were issued with provisionary SS number and Ausweis (Vorlaeufiger).
Most of the Foreign WSS soldiers were NOT full SS members for istance, and neither were most of the people drafted from LW or Heer such as many of the late KL-guards.

[chrischa]

That's not "my" opinion, it's a fact, and am I reading a bit of attitude in your reply?

Yes, but only a bit.

My point was the artillerymen, some who may have served for some time in the army became SS because of logistics (i.e. becoming attached to and then being incorperated into what would be the Polizei Division). The SS or W-SS arguement wasn't necessary as I think my meaning was obvious. It felt like you were nit picking a simply made, 'think out loud comment'.

Regards,
Chris.

[chrischa]

With all do respect Chris I did, and therefore I felt to make this comment (and so did TK I think).. I know that you know it isn't Pol. division and I didn't claim otherwise, but glad this is settled then.
You asked if someone had a possible theory about the use of SS buckles in the photo, these were my 2 cents.

Best
Frederik

Hello Frederik.

Point taken!

The buckles still puzzle me. I have tried to find other photos of policemen with SS buckles and couldn't find any.


Your theory sounds sensible.

In 1940, many of the original Ordungspolizei men were returned to police duties and youger men conscripted to fill the ranks. Maybe they retained their buckles?

Regards,
Chris.

[PBR]

No, it wasn't, and still doesn't, obvious.

Your statement:

I have always wondered how these artillerymen felt about becoming SS.

Again, it's very likely that most these artillerymen did not become SS.
They were drafted to Waffen-SS, that, as explained, was a different thing.
So, what in particular would these artillerymen felt while transferred to the Polizei Division?

[PBR]

Hello Frederik.

Maybe they retained their buckles?

Regards,
Chris.

They retained their buckles from what?

That was not an uncommon thing to see during the last years of war, in particular for fighting OrPo units.
OrPo was under SS control so, nothing strange to see SS stuff issued to Polizei members, it happened for several equipments, not buckles only.

[chrischa]

No, it wasn't, and still doesn't, obvious.

Your statement:



Again, it's very likely that most these artillerymen did not become SS.
They were drafted to Waffen-SS, that, as explained, was a different thing.
So, what in particular would these artillerymen felt while transferred to the Polizei Division?

Again, my point is that these men were army. They then became SS i.e. not Allegemeine SS, (if I meant that, I'd have stated it) but part of the SS as a whole.

The A-SS and W-SS made up the SS.

Thanks for explaining the difference by the way.

It appears you are intending to be difficult and not taking a simple comment as it is but trying to pick it apart.

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand the other question.

Regards,
Chris.

[chrischa]

They retained their buckles from what?

That was not an uncommon thing to see during the last years of war, in particular for fighting OrPo units.
OrPo was under SS control so, nothing strange to see SS stuff issued to Polizei members, it happened for several equipments, not buckles only.

T.K. (or may I call you T?).

Firstly, very nice photo. You must be pleased to own it.

Secondly I have not encountered many photos of SS equipment being worn with police uniforms.

Sorry about that but thanks for the information.

Regards,
Chris.