Black Police Overseas/M43 Cap Eagle

[Dave C.]

One other photo of the brown insignia in question on a typical brown utilized to reflect the contrast in color.

[JoeW]

Interesting analysis Dave. I never bought one of those brownies. I pulled the 1936 RErMdI and found the 25.6.1936 orders for new uniforms. Most authors concentrated on Attachments A and B that provided the colors and descriptions of the new items of clothing. But Attachment C is an interesting Requisition Order Form for the various police administrations. The various cap insignias are disinctly identified in the requisition list. I have included the page title and listings below.

I must admit the error of my pre-conceived idea, that the insignia was embroidered onto the Hausmutze cap band. As is obvious in this list, the Hausmutze cap insignias were ordered separately and applied to the cap band made of the uniform cloth trim. But please notice the description of the cap insignia and the described method of manufacture in items 61 and 65. All cap insignia to be applied to Hausmutzen were embroidered (gestickes). Moreover, the cap insignia color varied according to the branch of service. The Hausmutzen were only worn by the Hunderschaften of the Schupo and by the barrack units of the mot. Gend-Bereitschaften (soon to be called mot. Gendarmerie). So the Schupo Hausmutzen had a eagle insignia of aluminumcolor and those for the mot. Gend-Bereitschaften were matt-gold in color.

Sadly the backing material was not described. But in the description of the Hausmutze, it was to have a cap band like the Dienstmutze. Well the Dienstmutze cap band color was of dark brown for the Schupo and Gemeindepolizei. The mot.Gend-Bereitschaften also used dark brown as a cap band, but the Gendarmerie used medium brown. That was a new one for me.

Given these guidelines, I would question the method of manufacture of the above brown eagles (woven/gewebt) and the color? If the eagles are to be aluminum colored, would they used aluminum thread in the embroidery?

[Richard P]

Dave and Joe,

I must whole heartily disagree. I have the cap in question in hand, it is the proverbial one-looker, it is the epitome of a police crusher. I guarantee you the top TR visor experts could not find a single thing wrong with this cap, and are welcome to try. That is because there isn't one single thing wrong or questionable, unless you don't know what you (you=meaning everyone) are looking at. That does happen quite often on these forums and has caused many to no longer post. Quite a few people tried to buy this cap after it was put up for sale, so I'm not the only one convinced just with the original photos. Someone who had stopped by the dealer got it before anyone else saw it.

This cap was made as a police crusher and has original period insignia used that was specifically intended for a police crusher. It was never anything else, and definitely not a converted standard visor. Whether it meets with regulations as to color, thread type, etc. is of no consequence, unless you collect only items you can find regulations and specifications for. If I read your post correctly Joe, that was only the orders for Hausmutzen in one particular year 1936. Can't the orders in subsequent years be different? Can anyone say that any police crushers in period photographs meet up to these same regulations for each year?

The cap band measures 46 mm in height and the color of the bevo insignia and the band match quite close. The eagle is heavily padded and may have extra besides the folded under backing material behind it. I do not pretend to know any regulations concerning band height, but I can see what is sitting in front of me in the flesh so to speak. I have seen quite a few police visors that appear to have even taller cap bands of various shades of brown. I have seen countless Shupo visors with this same color of brown cap band. Most police eagles on standard visors sit half off the band, I have not seen that in any period police crusher photos.

In period photos of police crushers that have standard size cloth hat eagles, they appear undersized and wimpy. Maybe a later regulation was intended to rectify this situation. I have tried and tried to buy one of these loose eagles on brown, and not even the guy who originally had them will sell me one. If they are so questionable, why is everyone hanging on to them so tightly?

Richard

[Richard P]

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[Richard P]

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[JoeW]

Richard, I just quoted you the regulations when the crusher was introduced in 1936. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. The NCO variation was around for such a short time, being replaced within a year in 1937. I have pretty well search the annual publications for modifications. The officer variation authorization lasted until November 1939. Of course you will see some out there in the Police Division photos from their early years as the officers wore them out. They have to have be super rare as only officers in the Schupo barrack units wore them.