Medal series for Gestapo

[VIPER]

Am I correct in thinking that a Gestapo agent would have been eligible for the war merit Cross series of awards including the DK in silver and the Knights Cross of the War merit cross. Would the with swords types be more applicable to a Gestapo agent. I am planning on a display centered around my Gestapo Disk..........Thanks Jimmy

[Mainemilitaria]

A Gestapo agent would have been a member of the Police, and as such eligible for all the appropriate awards that a Policemen could have been awarded....however, since his Gestapo duties would have been non-combat related....they would have to be "without swords" (as far as the KVK is concerned). Of course, anything directly war- related would be considered "Combat" (Terror Bombing, for instance).

There are no instances where regular Gestapo members won either the Knights Cross of the KVK or a Silver DK as far as I know (and very doubtful any would have).....possibly the highest leadership might .........but that would be streaching it as they wouldn't truely have been considered Gestapo at that level.

Remember....a Gestapo agent would never wear his uniform when acting as a gestapo agent.....they were plain clothes......when in uniform the were considered regular police (or SS/SD).

As "Police" they would have had to qualify for one of the Sports Awards....and would have been eligible for the "flower Campaign" medals if thier duties involved them there.....most would have been Party members so they would have worn Party pins and been eligible for Party decorations if qualified....

Durning the war years.....any returned from Active duty types (wounded, etc.)
would have thier combat awrds....but again, only worn when not acting as a Gestapo member.

Many people confuse Gestapo with the SS.....but true Gestapo were Police (later some SS/SD also served)....plain clothes....more like detectives than
the sinister image from "Raiders of the lost Ark" types....
John G.

[VIPER]

How Likely is it that a 40 year old member of the police would have served in an Einsatzgrupen in the east. He also held the rank of Obersturmfurher in the reserve SS as well as a Hauptwachtmeister in the police....Best Jimmy

[JoeW]

A Gestapo agent would have been a member of the Police, and as such eligible for all the appropriate awards that a Policemen could have been awarded....however, since his Gestapo duties would have been non-combat related....they would have to be "without swords" (as far as the KVK is concerned). Of course, anything directly war- related would be considered "Combat" (Terror Bombing, for instance).

There are no instances where regular Gestapo members won either the Knights Cross of the KVK or a Silver DK as far as I know (and very doubtful any would have).....possibly the highest leadership might .........but that would be streaching it as they wouldn't truely have been considered Gestapo at that level.

Remember....a Gestapo agent would never wear his uniform when acting as a gestapo agent.....they were plain clothes......when in uniform the were considered regular police (or SS/SD).

As "Police" they would have had to qualify for one of the Sports Awards....and would have been eligible for the "flower Campaign" medals if thier duties involved them there.....most would have been Party members so they would have worn Party pins and been eligible for Party decorations if qualified....

Durning the war years.....any returned from Active duty types (wounded, etc.)
would have their combat awrds....but again, only worn when not acting as a Gestapo member.

Many people confuse Gestapo with the SS.....but true Gestapo were Police (later some SS/SD also served)....plain clothes....more like detectives than the sinister image from "Raiders of the lost Ark" types....
John G.

I beg your pardon, but do you know what you are talking about? The Gestapo was a department within the SS Hauptamt Sicherheitspolizei along with the Kriminalpolizei from 1936 through 1939, when it was combined with the SD into the RSHA. The Police- otherwise known as the Ordnungspolizei- was another SS Hauptamt and had no organizational relationship with the Gestapo. SS General Heinrich Muller was commander of the Gestapo and was awarded the RK of the KVK. Members of the Gestapo were not awarded Police Long Service Awards unless they qualified as members of the Ordnungspolizei before transfer to the Gestapo.

[JoeW]

How Likely is it that a 40 year old member of the police would have served in an Einsatzgrupen in the east. He also held the rank of Obersturmfurher in the reserve SS as well as a Hauptwachtmeister in the police....Best Jimmy

It is quite possible Jimmy. If you examine some EG references such as MacClean's "The Field Men", you would find the composition of EG included a contingent of Ordnungspolizei. Other than that, whether any of these policemen fit your description would be conjecture.

However, it is without doubt that your described policeman would have been a member of one of the Police Regiments (Nord, Sud or Mitte) fielded by Himmler with the start of Operation Barbarossa that performed duties similar to the EG in the East. These and other similar police units were discussed in reference works like Browning's "Ordinary Men".

[VIPER]

Thanks Joe.......I have an SS Ground Rohm......serial numbered too just such a police officer. A great many of the surviving records are burned with gaps from 1938-1944. Judging by whats left he was a true believer..........Jimmy

[JoeW]

I beg your pardon, but do you know what you are talking about? The Gestapo was a department within the SS Hauptamt Sicherheitspolizei along with the Kriminalpolizei from 1936 through 1939, when it was combined with the SD into the RSHA. The Police- otherwise known as the Ordnungspolizei- was another SS Hauptamt and had no organizational relationship with the Gestapo. SS General Heinrich Muller was commander of the Gestapo and was awarded the RK of the KVK. Members of the Gestapo were not awarded Police Long Service Awards unless they qualified as members of the Ordnungspolizei before transfer to the Gestapo.

I must apologize for my last statement above which was incorrect. Checking the RGBl I find the law creating the police long service award specifically included members of the Reichs Kriminal Polizei and the Gestapo along with members of the Schutzpolizei (Reich and Gemeinde) and Gendarmerie in the award category of the long service awards. Members of the Administrative Police (Verwaltungspolizei) and Police medical officers were excluded.