Diplomats Metal Cap Eagle Fake or Real??

[Rick C]

"It does seem that the fletching is the same in the Stadnicki cap as on the old Delta Fakes, so maybe they were cast from originals--I simply don't know."

Not to belabor the point but, my eagle is a 'casting'?

[Military]

That myth busting thread is an excellent one, stonemint.

Back to the topic. These diplomatic eagles, as discussed and pointed by several members, have been copied and reproduced by WW2 and Delta Int. and as shown in their old catalogues.

Whether Ed's cap eagle was replaced and whether we can turn it around and inspect it, only the owner can do so. The diplomatic cap eagle has been and will be a mystery.

And yes Rick, your eagle is a cast copy.

[Military]

High res closeup of the same insignia.
Photo source is the same as the one pictured by stonemint on post 58.

[Rick C]

That myth busting thread is an excellent one, stonemint.
Back to the topic. These diplomatic eagles, as discussed and pointed by several members, have been copied and reproduced by WW2 and Delta Int. and as shown in their old catalogues.
Whether Ed's cap eagle was replaced and whether we can turn it around and inspect it, only the owner can do so. The diplomatic cap eagle has been and will be a mystery.
And yes Rick, your eagle is a cast copy.

After your short quip, recognizing the reference to the other thread, (which blows 80% of the argument contained in this thread out of the water) you claim we should get “back to the topic”. To what end sir?

You’ve stated for the benefit of all that: “These diplomatic eagles, as discussed and pointed by several members, have been copied and reproduced by WW2 and Delta Int. and as shown in their old catalogues.” Clearly since replica insignia were ‘made’, apparently all these eagles are fake. Do you merely want other members to post more eagles so you can continue to dismiss them? Why discuss them further after a blanket statement such as yours above? Why, pray tell, should we bother getting “back to the topic” at all since you’ve spoken so eloquently and definitively on this subject.

With all due respect, might I point out how ludicrous the logic of your statement, by itself, is? You state they “have been copied and reproduced” thus, apparently...all having similar characteristics are fake? Because some contributor hererin made a claim that civil insignia wasn’t supposed to be marked with the RZM logo should we ask Stonemint to remove the thread I linked above showing numerous civil insignia having RZM related nomenclature? Surely his thread is spreading dangerous & spurious propaganda to the detriment of the collecting community. For myself, I ran across a rather nice reproduction of a DKiG marked ‘21’ the other day; by the aforementioned logic, because these “have been copied and reproduced” need I dismiss all similarly marked DKiGs?

By all means, let's get “back to the topic”. Let’s search every dealer site for imagery of more General Government caps and idly suggest someone should ask said dealer to pull the insignia off to take a look. Better yet, lets just show the caps and, through inference, posit that each cap may be messed with and has Delta insignia.

PS: I'll get right on throwing that "cast copy" away. Thanx, RC

[stonemint]

Rick, I am not here to bash the insignia, and I will admit, I have not examined the Delta fakes close-up--they could be stamped as well. I agree, further investigation is warranted, and we need to see some originals for comparison. The fletching in both eagles on the hats I posted do seem to match the "Delta" eagles. Next show I hit I will spend more time looking at all the diplo metal eagles I can find.

[TxGauleiter]

After your short quip, recognizing the reference to the other thread, (which blows 80% of the argument contained in this thread out of the water) you claim we should get “back to the topic”. To what end sir?

You’ve stated for the benefit of all that: “These diplomatic eagles, as discussed and pointed by several members, have been copied and reproduced by WW2 and Delta Int. and as shown in their old catalogues.” Clearly since replica insignia were ‘made’, apparently all these eagles are fake. Do you merely want other members to post more eagles so you can continue to dismiss them? Why discuss them further after a blanket statement such as yours above? Why, pray tell, should we bother getting “back to the topic” at all since you’ve spoken so eloquently and definitively on this subject.

With all due respect, might I point out how ludicrous the logic of your statement, by itself, is? You state they “have been copied and reproduced” thus, apparently...all having similar characteristics are fake? Because some contributor hererin made a claim that civil insignia wasn’t supposed to be marked with the RZM logo should we ask Stonemint to remove the thread I linked above showing numerous civil insignia having RZM related nomenclature? Surely his thread is spreading dangerous & spurious propaganda to the detriment of the collecting community. For myself, I ran across a rather nice reproduction of a DKiG marked ‘21’ the other day; by the aforementioned logic, because these “have been copied and reproduced” need I dismiss all similarly marked DKiGs?

By all means, let's get “back to the topic”. Let’s search every dealer site for imagery of more General Government caps and idly suggest someone should ask said dealer to pull the insignia off to take a look. Better yet, lets just show the caps and, through inference, posit that each cap may be messed with and has Delta insignia.

PS: I'll get right on throwing that "cast copy" away. Thanx, RC

Rick,
this member has decided to posture among the forum as "the" authority on metal eagles, pretending to be 'scholarly' in his approach. however, he is a novice and his opinions are dismissed by almost everyone here as laughable. it is frustrating and we seem to have no recourse, because his opinions confuse & cloud the issue and put unknowing collectors' dollars at stake. it really is a shame that we have to put up with it. his "opinions" are routinely overturned. it would appear he gets a thrill by stating with conviction his opinions, as evidenced above. responsible moderators should put an end to his posting ability. it would be funny except that there are likely victims making collecting decisions based on his drivel. he is wrong so often with his opinions, him calling it bad probably means its 100% correct.

[colt45s]

the claws on the one i had were very sharp, best detail i saw as did the buyer

[Silesien]

I've been thru all my old Delta catalogs & cannot find this eagle for sale anywhere. But it is definitely in the old WW2 Ltd catalogs. Can anybody post a picture of this eagle for sale in an old Delta catalog ?? You guys need to stop calling this thing a DELTA product until you find out for sure if it was or not. Delta didn't MAKE anything, all their crap was imported, & had little tags of country of origin "Made in Taiwan".

[stonemint]

I've been thru all my old Delta catalogs & cannot find this eagle for sale anywhere. But it is definitely in the old WW2 Ltd catalogs. Can anybody post a picture of this eagle for sale in an old Delta catalog ?? You guys need to stop calling this thing a DELTA product until you find out for sure if it was or not. Delta didn't MAKE anything, all their crap was imported, & had little tags of country of origin "Made in Taiwan".

I don't have any of those old catalogs anymore. WW2's stuff was junk, in that all their stuff I saw was cast out of some cheap lead-based alloy and painted with what appeared to be model spray-paint--I am surpised that anything they sold was stamped out of aluminum, or an alloy. Can you post a pic of the eagle in the catalog?

[Rick C]

So, if I follow this unraveling story accurately, the initial claim was that because this ‘organization’ wasn’t a “nazi party” organization these were fake because they were showing an RZM logo. Stonemint has put this generalization to bed with his thread on Myth Busting, that I linked hereto, showing non-nazi organizations DID at times have the RZM nomenclature in spite of the regs not calling for it.

The utter ridiculousness of the argument or FU logic that because Delta & WW2 sold reproductions of these that all those shown are reproductions seems to be now in question because the eagle, apparently isn't in the Delta catalog. I noticed the catalog page shown has a vague difference in the head of those posted but why fight the ‘experts’ on this. Stonemint has, based on his experience, stated “WW2's stuff was junk, in that all their stuff I saw was cast out of some cheap lead-based alloy and painted with what appeared to be model spray-paint--I am surprised that anything they sold was stamped out of aluminum, or an alloy.” Thus the generalized pontification posted to this thread seems to be going down like the World Trade Center or the claim of Saddam having nuclear weapons.

I can’t speak for the other eagles posted here, but the one belonging to me, posted here by Military as an example of a fake, after he tried and failed to buy it from me, which he was kind enough to condescendingly tell me (and all of you) was a “cast copy”, is not made from some sub standard material, nor is it (contrary to our expert on “metal eagle insignia”) ‘cast’ by any method I’m familiar with. Looking at the pin attachment there appears no evidence of second rate work.  It's clean and well done, showing no excess solder as one often sees in banged out reproductions or, even, later war stuff. So what’s left? It’s fake cuz I say it’s fake?

[Silesien]

I have the old WW2 Ltd catalog but am not able to post. I remember all those terrible cast junky badges / medals WW2 Ltd had with that sprayed on paint,,, what a joke, especially those Battle Shields,- but for a while in the beginning, they did handle R. Souval stuff, til it ran out. Like Souval 1939 Eagle Bar Clasps, NSDAP enamel Crosses, Red Cross sister's neck cross, original cap edelweiss for Army (very cheap at the time for real ones), Souval's tinnies, etc. so for a time they did have a little bit better quality offerings, but it all went downhill fast.

[stonemint]

This one appeared on a site recently--it appears to be the same as the others, but with a darkened swastika:

[stonemint]

Closeup of obverse, and the standard 2-prongs on the rear:

[stonemint]

Other side of same eagle:

[tony playle]

Hello. I have a metal Eagle Cap badge, can anyone tell me if it's genuine please?
DESCRIPTION:
nickel silver, open winged eagle, facing left (from eagle's perspective), 67mm wingspan, on reverse, the markings RZM on left wing, M1/2 on right wing and two metal pins on reverse on a horizontal level facing inwards. Thanks.