The Shorter Police Bayonet

[old siagon]

Greetings Gentlemen,

I have just acquired 2 new daggers to my Police collection. I am not a dagger expert and I have some questions about these 2 unique bayonets. I will list each one seperately.

Just a couple overview photos of the two Bayonets






The second Bayonet I would like your opinions on is a shorter Police Bayonet. It measures approximately 16.25 inches in the scabbard and the bayonet itself out of the scabbard measures approximately 14.25 inches.



The handle with Eagle:





The opposite side



The back side



The blade is in excellent condition, having Never been sharpened, no dings in the blade either. Here is the Maker's Mark:



The scabbard is also in excellent condition with beautiful dark brown leather with no cracks and firm stitching. The end cap has no dents and the section with the bayonet lug is also spotless.







Why was there a short bayonet? How many different sizes were there during the TR?
Many thanks for your assistance,
Vince Leone

[JoeW]

As I wrote in the other posts you made, the short bayonet was authorized for wear off-duty by those policemen who so desired and were able to purchase such a weapon.

There were basically three sizes of police bayonets (PS/Polizeiseitengewehr) in the Third Reich era: 1) the original length M29 Prussian clamshell police service bayonet that can be found converted with III Reich police insignia, sometimes found unconverted still with Prussian police star and sometimes of original III Reich period manufacture, 2) the standard length police service bayonet that can be found converted from M29 Prussian configuration with the clamshell removed and the III Reich police insignia added or of original manufacture like yours, and 3) the short "Extra" quality bayonet created for wear off duty that can be found in the three variations of the first size listed above. Yours is converted from an Extra one as the clamshell was removed (the metal collar remains on yours) and the III Reich eagle was applied.

As I have pointed out in other posts, the term short and shortened police bayonet has often been confused by authors misreading the police regulations. The off-duty Extra police bayonets were authorized to be worn if they conformed to the design of the police service bayonets and were a proscribed shorter length. The longer length M29 Prussian police bayonets were found to be too unwieldy and were ordered shortened in the 1938/39 period to the standard length police bayonet. Some authors have confused this description and had written that the Water Police were to wear "short" police bayonets rather than bayonets "shortened" from the longer Prussian length.

[old siagon]

Thanks Joe

As I wrote in the other posts you made, the short bayonet was authorized for wear off-duty by those policemen who so desired and were able to purchase such a weapon.

There were basically three sizes of police bayonets (PS/Polizeiseitengewehr) in the Third Reich era: 1) the original length M29 Prussian clamshell police service bayonet that can be found converted with III Reich police insignia, sometimes found unconverted still with Prussian police star and sometimes of original III Reich period manufacture, 2) the standard length police service bayonet that can be found converted from M29 Prussian configuration with the clamshell removed and the III Reich police insignia added or of original manufacture like yours, and 3) the short "Extra" quality bayonet created for wear off duty that can be found in the three variations of the first size listed above. Yours is converted from an Extra one as the clamshell was removed (the metal collar remains on yours) and the III Reich eagle was applied.

As I have pointed out in other posts, the term short and shortened police bayonet has often been confused by authors misreading the police regulations. The off-duty Extra police bayonets were authorized to be worn if they conformed to the design of the police service bayonets and were a proscribed shorter length. The longer length M29 Prussian police bayonets were found to be too unwieldy and were ordered shortened in the 1938/39 period to the standard length police bayonet. Some authors have confused this description and had written that the Water Police were to wear "short" police bayonets rather than bayonets "shortened" from the longer Prussian length.

Hello Joe,

Thanks for the refresher. I do not understand what you mean by this statement. Can you please show me a photo ro describe this so I can understand exactly what you are talking about? "Yours is converted from an Extra one as the clamshell was removed (the metal collar remains on yours) and the III Reich eagle was applied."

Are the short "Extra" quality bayonet considered rare? Did they come in both brown and black leather? Do they use a different size frog and portapee or just standard size?

Many thanks my friend,
Vince

[Dave C.]

The metal ring next to the crossguard (between the crossguard and upper scabbard fitting when in the scabbard) is evidence of clamshell. See the brass tone on the front where the clamshell was cut and polished down. Uncommon they maybe. Your scabbard appears to have been black and has been worn through to the brown.

For pictures and reference, check out George Wheelers book - Seitengewehr: History of the German Bayonet 1919-1945