Sipo weapon question

[Dmv]

Hello, got a question about this "schlagfeder"? (don't know the name in english)
It is marked D.R.G.M. and SIPO, but is it really for the Sicherheits Polizei,
or just a commercial item marked that way?

How were these carried and how were handcuffs (I've got Clejuso's) carried by the police? any special pouch or so? Pease post photo's!

Thanks in advance!

[JoeW]

I though CSI-GB would have answered this already. The SIPO marking is a commercial trademark of the company that made that spring-cosh. The same brand was advertised in period police magazines. Trouble is, how do you tell the age of them. I have one similar to yours that my father bought in Germany in the 1950s. Looking at the illustrations in police manuals, those of that period seem a bit different in shape.

I can't find it, but there was a very good thread on these, hopefully on this forum. Most of the informative material on GD.Com has been deleted.

These were carried in pockets by detectives. Cuffs were used in a different manner than nowadays. Chain come-a-longs were used to subdue and move suspects. Handcuffs were for more permanent transport IMO.

G-Man, do you have the link for that thread with the info on the coshes?

[Dmv]

Joe, thanks for the info!

What's the thread link?

[SiPo]

Have just "stumbled" across this now as I was on holiday when first posted so please forgive my tardy reply.

Dmv, could you please tell me the length of your baton open and closed?

Joe, could I please ask the same of you for your piece, and also for the lengths of the "Blitz" and "SIPO" models as listed in the Akah cataloue?

[SiPo]

Ok.

Well, basically your "SIPO" baton or "stahlruten" was available in two models, each having two versions, black or nickle plated.

The two models are nearly identical apart from the size.

The larger more heavier of the two, the"SIPO" model, was approximately 16.5 cm when racked and 42 cm when fully extended. It weighed approximately 295 gr and came with a wrist strap attached.

The smaller model, the "Blitz," was approximately 13 cm racked, 35 cm when fully extended. This model weighed approximately 150 gr and did not usually come with a strap.

The "DRGM" or "Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchsmuster" stamp signifies that it is has a lower grade patent of the type that usually lasts
between 3 to 5 years. The "DRGM" symbol was in use between 1891 and 1945. I have been informed by other collectors that these batons have also been found with the "DRP" stamp but I have yet to see one personally. The "DRP"or "Deutsches Reichspatent," stamp meant that it had a proper patent. This "DRP" stamp was used between 1877 and 1945.

I personally have only seen two manufacturers marks on these batons which is displayed on the end cap. The two I know of are "SIPO" and the stylised initials "ML." If anyone has one of these marked to any other maker, I would be interested to know.

In my opinion, "stahlruten" that do not display either "DRGM" or "DRP," should be considered post war manufactured pieces.

In the attached pics, the size difference between the "SIPO" baton at left, and the "Blitz" version at right can be clearly seen, as can the two types of finish.

[SiPo]

Finish.

[SiPo]

"ML" mark.

[JoeW]

This is a very fine presentation G-Man.

[SiPo]

TVM

[JoeW]

From a cursory check of the net, it appears that both DRP and DRGM were in use after the war until after the creation of the BRD when the designations were changed to DBP and DBGM. So there is the possibility that DRGM was used for a time in the post German industry.

[bahnschutz1]

g hanson
fantastic group you have there!
and thanks for the info. very informative.

[SiPo]

You are right Joe. I found that very fact myself from the website of the "DPMA" or the "German Patent and Trade Mark Office," after I had posted, but with the loss of edit facility I cannot change my dates.

However, I still believe that these "DRP" and "DRGM" pieces are of wartime or pre-war manufacture. I do not know when these were first advertised but my "Akah" catalogue is from 1932, so they had been around a long time prior to 1945. I may be wrong but I think I remember these being around since at least the late '20's? What is your earliest Akah catalogue?

I have seen examples of these without any "DRP" or "DRGM" markings, yet I have not seen any with the "DBP" or "DBGM" markings, which of course superceeded the "DRP" and "DRGM" marks around 1950-51.

We also of course do not know if they continued to be manufactured between 1945 - 1950/1 and thus still being marked as "DRP" and "DRGM."
As we still do not know who actually made them or were they were manufactured, we are unable to check any company records.

It is entirely possible that the manufacture of these ceased before 1945 and that the examples purchased or in use in the late '40's early '50's were of wartime or pre war stock. Also, even if they were being manufactured between 1945 and 1950/1, I wouldn't have thought we were looking at a massive amount as opposed to the total numbers that must have been produced between the '20s/'30s and 1945.

I sent the DPMA an email earlier this afternoon to clarify a few things so will wait and see what they have to say. I have also asked for the patent numbers applied to these stahlruten and the last renewal date on these.

The only patent number I have is one to a "Gummiknüppel." Now that was a "schlagwaffe!"

Here are the pics from the '32 Akah cat.

[Dmv]

Hello G. Hanson,

Thanks for the very informative info appreciate it!

The SIPO marking is a commercial trademark of the company that made that spring-cosh. The same brand was advertised in period police magazines.

One thing that is not quite clear to me is:
Was this stahlruten a commercial item, so for "open" sale.
and/or were these used by the police as part of official equipment.

A thought of mine: was it even allowed to sell these after may 1945? (if commercial sold) I don't know the post war laws, but can immagine that the occupying powers didn't want the german people to have such battons...

[SiPo]

The "stahlruten" was a commercial item used by the police and which was available for open sale.

Here are a few pics of a piece owned by JoeW.

Note the D.R.P and D.R.G.M markings above and below the "Sipo" mark.

[SiPo]

.