Spurious KRIPO Disc

[Bob Hritz]

In my seeking for an original KRIPO disc, I came across this dangerous fake. It has enough differences, when compared to Don Bible's fine references, to make it distinguishable from an original. Of course, if could fool many collectors who have not done their homework.

It is too often we forget these pioneers, like Don Bible, who have done all the work to make collecting much safer.

Bob Hritz

[Bob Hritz]

Verso: spurious KRIPO disc.

Bob Hritz

[Military]

Dear Bob,

please excuse my inexperience but could you enlighten us with your learned opinions on why this is a fake? thank you.

[Don Bible]

Bob,

Thank you for your kind remarks. Appreciation spoken or written by fellow collectors makes the long hours of research and learning from mistakes, worthwhile.

Military, in an effort to illustrate what Bob was talking about in his post, I would refer you to an earler thread on this subject of Staatliche Kriminalpolizei warrant discs from a few days ago. Mr. G. Hanson posted excellent examples of both sides of a State Kripo disc. I think you will readily see the differences in those photos and the ones posted by Bob.

[Dave C.]

Surious indeed. Below is the next level of repro...

Don, by all means share your website address at any point to help those that have questions. I think it's an excellent reference as are your publications on the subject!

[Dave C.]

The other side

[Don Bible]

Dave, the high quality counterfeit Gestapo disc that you have posted here is the type that cost a lot of collectors and dealers a lot of money beginning back in 1994. The fake discs showed up in many places all over Europe and eventually began to come in to the U.S.

The going price was $2500, and many were sold. They were accompanied by both a bronze and a nickle-silver (neusilber) version of the very rare Prussian State Kripo disc (only one original is known). Today examples of these three fakes can occassionaly be bought for $150-$200, at militaria shows.

Quality of all the fakes was very, very, good. In the same "batch" were very nice examples of the disc for the "Geheime Feld Polizei." Some of those still float around...touted as originals.

Examples of all these fake pieces can be seen on my website at http://home.comcast.net/~donbible/

Original examples are also shown on the website, except for the Geheime Feld Polizei. I think there may be only one original example of that one known. It came from Hungary to Berlin in the 1960s, by way of a Russian officer, who sold it to a German collector.

[quankle]

Abwehr discs

Anyone have any knowledge of Abwehr discs (discs with a similar purpose to those discussed above but for Adm. Canaris' outfit before it was dissolved).

[Dave C.]

Dave, the high quality counterfeit Gestapo disc that you have posted here is the type that cost a lot of collectors and dealers a lot of money beginning back in 1994. The fake discs showed up in many places all over Europe and eventually began to come in to the U.S.

The going price was $2500, and many were sold. They were accompanied by both a bronze and a nickle-silver (neusilber) version of the very rare Prussian State Kripo disc (only one original is known). Today examples of these three fakes can occassionaly be bought for $150-$200, at militaria shows.

Quality of all the fakes was very, very, good. In the same "batch" were very nice examples of the disc for the "Geheime Feld Polizei." Some of those still float around...touted as originals.

Examples of all these fake pieces can be seen on my website at http://home.comcast.net/~donbible/

Original examples are also shown on the website, except for the Geheime Feld Polizei. I think there may be only one original example of that one known. It came from Hungary to Berlin in the 1960s, by way of a Russian officer, who sold it to a German collector.

Hi Don, after having that example I posted above in hand, I'm able to clearly see how it caused so much trouble. It's very impressive, well made, heavy and constructed from resonable quality material. I'm certainly glad we've since been enlightened about these repros. Unfortunately this is about as close as I'll get to owning the real deal.

[SiPo]

Collectors of Police warrant discs owe so much to Don for his unrelentless search for the truth and for bringing these fakes to our attention. Quite a few of us had been stung by these pieces before the truth was known....including Don and myself.

Unfortunately, these discs are still being offered as original by some mainstream dealers. In fact, 2 months ago, I had cause to inform a certain dealer that the one they were selling was one of these fakes. It took several emails before the disc was removed..... well hopefully removed and not sold! The more upsetting thing is, is that I believe this dealer knew the disc was not an original, due to the price they were asking, which at £850, is far below that of an original.

I for one, will forever be indebted to Don, and continue to learn much from him.

[Don Bible]

Thank you Graham and Dave and others for your kind words of encouragement. It is never easy to tell a collector or dealer that a piece he owns is a counterfeit. Believe me, I know the sinking feeling that one gets when he has paid good money for a cleverly designed and produced fake.

In the 1990s, it took me almost six years to get my $2500 returned for an ultra rare, beautiful...but fake Prussian State Kripo disc in "neusilber." At that time no one had ever seen a counterfeit of this particular rare disc, and a very, very plausible story went with it.

The story came directly to me from a well-regarded author and collector, who repeatedly assured me that he had invested thousands of pounds of his own money in acquiring these rare treasures from the "East", that had been held in official archives for almost 50 years, where they had been held as evidence in the war crimes trials held in that country. The country had just thrown off its yoke of a communist government.

Supposedly his contact there was a native of my "benefactors" own country...but married to a native of the country where the rare pieces were held. My contact swore me to secrecy stating that the life of his contact person would be in danger if his part in this transaction were ever discovered. A story straight out of an Ian Fleming story about James Bond as 007 !!

Later when this man was investigated by the police in his own country, he denied all knowledge of this story to me, and his part in it.

At that time the most outspoken of my critics for revealing that these pieces were indeed counterfeit, were several dealers who had loaded up on these "rare treasures" and had not yet had time to sell them.

On the other hand a few dealers who are still highly regarded today, voiced the opinion (very unpoplar at the time) that I was indeed correct....and that the pieces were high quailty fakes. Also a couple of courageous collector's magazine editors ran the story with the pictures and proof. Those persons I will never forget!!

A real adventure at the time, but fortunatly "water over the dam."