Hauptwachtmeister tunic on Estand

[SCHUPO]

Gentlemen,

Please take a look at the "Hauptwachtmeister" Schupo tunic for sale on Estand and tell me what you think.

Has anyone seen der Spiess cuff tress like this before? Has anyone seen German wartime NCO tress of this zig-zag pattern?

The shoulder boards are obviously not for a Hauptwachtmeister. They are Meister boards with two pips.

[Dave C.]

Interesting...the tunic appears to be dated 1940, is this example actually an unaltered example of an early Revier-Oberleutnant serving as Der Spiess? If the date is 1940, it happens to fall within a small window of time (approx. 7 months) and of possibility before a subsequent change is shoulder boards???

I’ve actually had this type of tresse on a Zugwachfuhrer tunic I once owned and I had no suspicions about being an altered example. See below.

[Dave C.]

tresse

[SCHUPO]

Dave,

Very interesting that your tunic had this same style tresse.

[Dave C.]

It is, and now you have me wondering about other possible applications of this Tresse that have been observed. This pattern certainly stands outs.

[SCHUPO]

Dave,

I have looked about on the boards and I cannot find another example of this tresse. Here is a thread on the normal diamond pattern that is interesting.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...+german+tresse

I know that there were other styles of tress used but this one throws me.

[Diane]

Zig-zag pattern tress.

Hello Schupo,

This pattern tress was used by RAD NCO's. I have also seen it used on Austrian Collar tabs.


Diane

[SCHUPO]

Hello Schupo,

This pattern tress was used by RAD NCO's. I have also seen it used on Austrian Collar tabs.


Diane

Diane,

Thanks for the info. I simply could not identify this type of tresse. I would never have thought of the RAD.

[Bill H.]

It is, and now you have me wondering about other possible applications of this Tresse that have been observed. This pattern certainly stands outs.

For what its worth, this zig zag pattern is the only one I've seen on Polizei Spiess tunics.

Cheers, Bill Huber

[SCHUPO]

Hi Bill,

One reason that I ask is that I have a named Schupo der Spiess tunic with double stripes of the standard diamond pattern tresse. I have seen other police tunics with the standard tress on the cuffs as well.

While it is not unreasonable that the RAD tress could be on Pol Zugwachtmeister or Spiess cuffs, I think it is certainly out of the ordinary. I am glad that you can report that you have seen other police examples with this zig-zag tresse.

[lbsr]

First of all, it is Zugwachtmeister - not Hauptwachtmeister (Spieß).
This pattern was used by Austrian Heer and Czechoslovakian pre-war army.

[SCHUPO]

Jiri,

Thanks for the information on the pre-war Austrian and Czech use of this zig-zag tresse.

[Bill H.]

Hi Bill,

One reason that I ask is that I have a named Schupo der Spiess tunic with double stripes of the standard diamond pattern tresse. I have seen other police tunics with the standard tress on the cuffs as well.

While it is not unreasonable that the RAD tress could be on Pol Zugwachtmeister or Spiess cuffs, I think it is certainly out of the ordinary. I am glad that you can report that you have seen other police examples with this zig-zag tresse.

Hi Schupo,

Seems like when I've seen polizei spiess they only have one band of tresse.

The only double banded polizei spiess example I've seen was feldgendarmerie and fell under the army's traditions.

Admittedly, I've not seen numerous examples but I'd love to if you post them

Cheers, Bill

[SCHUPO]

Bill,

As Jiri points out, the Spiess tunics have two rows of tresse at the cuff. The Zugwachtmeister tunics have only one row of tresse at the cuff.

The tunic was originally listed in the estand description as a "Hauptwachtmeister tunic." This is also incorrect as it has Russia braid style Meister rank shoulderboards with two pips. Hauptwachtmeister is a rank with two pips on the standard (non Russia braid) police NCO shoulderboards.

Zugwachtmeister and Spiess are not ranks but appointments that could be filled by several senior NCO ranks including a Hauptwachtmeister.

The tunic description was wrong and confusing. That is why I posted this thread so we might hash out what this tunic actually is.