Gendarmerie High Alpine badge

[Bill H.]

Hi Guys,

Dave Cameron mentioned the High Alpine Gendarmerie badge in another thread on Police Mountain badges and it caused me to wonder. Does anyone on the list have an example in their collection? What would one expect to have to pay for such a piece? I have always loved that piece and would love to get one for my collection but I've only seen them in reference books. Helmut Weitze had one years ago but I never got to see it. I figured if anybody had one they'd be reading this forum.

Thanks, Bill Huber

[MJC]

Hi,

I have the pics saved from Weitze's site, but on another laptop. If nobody posts them sooner, I can do it tomorrow night. A beautiful piece.

Mike

[Dave C.]

Below is the example Weitze had for sale, although I don't remember what he wanted for it? About the only other example I've seen had a broken pick.

[Dave C.]

Reverse:

[Dave C.]

Maker

[JoeW]

Both the Alpinist and Hoch Alpinist Abzeichen are very nice badges. I believe all surviving are post-Anschluss reworks of original Austrian Gendarmerie badges. Whether the modification was only required of recipients after the Anschluss for wear with III Reich police uniforms, or in addition unissued badges were reworked for issue to qualified climbers until the new Bergfuhrer badge was created, is uncertain.

[Bill H.]

Thank you, gents. I knew all I had to do was pose the question! Well done. Any thoughts on what one might have to expend to buy one these days? I'm hoping too that someone might have a period photo of the badge in wear.

Joe W brings up an excellent point in the Austrian rework vs German production issue. I'm sure that's what Helmut Weitze referred to when he told me about the one he had for sale (that Dave posted here) years ago. Has anyone ever seen the German produced version close up?

One last thing, does anyone have data on how many of these badges might have been awarded or produced. They seem to be quite scarce. I've seen a hundred diamond encrusted uboat, pilot observer, high seas fleet for just this one high alpine badge. It dosn't seem possible that a badge worn by (relatively) so many policemen should be so hard to find.

Thanks again, Bill Huber

[JoeW]

At this time, I don't think the Alpinist/Hochalpinist badges were ever produced new for III Reich police forces. In my opinion, all were reworks of pre-Anschluss Austrian issued examples. I would estimate the issue number to be less than 100; similar to the estimate of Bergfuhrer badges issued.

[Fireangel]

Gendarmerie hoch alpinist badge

I know that I am a few years too late for this thread but I am in pocesition of one of this badges, more than likely a fake but a dam good one, should anybody like a photo I can send one on, as for the value who Knows??????

[Mike TM]

This is a fake of this badge. Note the differences with the original (enamel, flowers, etc..)

[Stan]

Fireangel.

I would like to see a picture of your badge or is it the one which Mike just posted?

Stan

[Dave C.]

Just for reference, some poast related threads:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199950&highlight=gendarmerie+badg e<O</O
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http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422136&highlight=gendarmerie+badg e<O</O
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http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243049&highlight=hochalpinist<O</O
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http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343183&highlight=alpinist<O</O

[Gary Symonds]

At this time, I don't think the Alpinist/Hochalpinist badges were ever produced new for III Reich police forces. In my opinion, all were reworks of pre-Anschluss Austrian issued examples. I would estimate the issue number to be less than 100; similar to the estimate of Bergfuhrer badges issued.

Mr. Wotka:
Please provide your evidence to support this opinion.

[SiPo]

Gary, do you have doubts about Joe's opinion?

[JoeW]

Geez Gary, a little late to the party, aren't we? At my age, I have to think about what I was thinking about almost nine years ago. Pulling out my file on the Alpinist und Hoch-Alpinist Gendarmerie Abzeichens brings back some memories. Back in mid 1980s, I decided to write the Austrian police authorities about the badges. I was pleasantly surprised when they sent me copies of the various Austrian directives about the badges as well as two examples of the Austrian versions that I supposed were still in use.

My opinion was based on historical evidence. The badges were Austrian creations to indicate qualification of mountain climbing ability. Although after the Anschluss, the Nazi police did wish to convert the Austrian police, some evidence of Austrian service remained, such as Nazified Austrian tanker helmets, use of the police Steyr pistols, rifles and bayonets and of course the Alpinist and Hoch Alpinist Gendarmerie badges. In my search of the ministerial records of the RMdI and CdDP, I found no evidence of authorization of a new badge for those Bergfuhrer classes that occurred after the Anschluss and before the introduction of the new Nazi police Bergfuhrer Abzeichen. To me, this meant those Austrian Gendarmerie men awarded the badge could continue wearing it with the proviso that it be Nazified.

Wim Saris authored an article on German Police Mountain Badges and Insignia in Patzwall magazine in 2000. In the second part of the article, he wrote about the photo of a modified Austrian Hochalpinist badge that it "...was continually bestowed after the reunion (1938) in modified shape. Instead of the coat-of-arms, the insignia now showed the German police-national emblem (police eagle/wreath). Nowadays insignia of the first republic are falsified in the way that a police-national emblem is put instead of the original coat-of-arms." The photo was credited to Otto Spronk. Saris cited an unpublished order of 26.07.1938 as introducing these badges. I disagreed with his statement as well as with the inclusion of a Polizei Schi-Fuhrer badge of dubious authenticity and so wrote Patzwall. The unpublished citation is unknown, but we know the Austrian badges were created years befoe 1938, so his contention was incorrect. I believed that unpublished order concerned modifying those badges in the possession of Austrian Gendarmes. If the order concerned the creation of a new badge, then it would have been published, such as were the creation of the Bergfuhrer and Ski-Fuhrer badges. Something unpubished to me would be of a secondary, local importance, such as authorizing the continued wear of the badges if they were nazified.

In 2010, Jorge Steiner wrote an article on the Alpin-Abzeichen of Austria 1927-1955 again in Patzwall's "Militaria" magazine. Steiner noted the error in Saris's article concerning the date of introduction of the badges. He also uncovered a listing of the authorized Gendarmerie Alpinists as of March 1938 as well as the numbers of Hoch-Alpinists and Lehrers. There were 170 Alpinists, 115 Hochalpinists and 10 Lehrers. So I was off in my estimation of the number of these Austrian badges issued by quite a bit.

I guess that explains the "evidence" of my opinion. Perhaps it is a bit more circumstantial than empircal. Steiner also writes that all current photos of the Austrian badges in use show only those badges with the white enamel background of the eagle.