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    Edelweiss DRK badge with Swastika

    I have been doing some research on this DRK mountain badge, which has been discussed many times previously on this and other militaria forums. This badge is on display at Lofoten Krigsminnemuseum in Svolvær (Norway). However many experts believe it to be a fantasy item.

    Yet there are a number of reasons to suggest that this badge was a real item:

    1) The badge is of exceptionally high quality;
    2) Only limited numbers exist in collections. Surely if it were a fake we would see this badge everywhere, especially on online auction sites like Ebay;
    3) Some of these badges show signs of considerable wear, the likes of which could not be easily reproduced on a fake;
    4) The request for unknown badges is not high enough to warrant the production of such an exquisite badge. Most exquisite copies are of the expensive and popular medals that people are looking for. Most fantasy items are of poor design and construction;
    5) It is of correct period material and manufacture. Compare this badge with other more well known DRK badges from the era and it matches perfectly. The material is the same. The pin clip construction is virtually identical. The Ges. Gesch. mark is the same.
    6) This item has all the hallmarks of a private purchase, in which case it may not be a "military" item in the strict sense, which could account for some of the discrepancies that some people have pointed out. Most militaria experts would be trying to view this badge in light of other military issue items, whereas this may be a purely civil badge.

    However the badge is not without problems either, the main one being the central swastika, which seems out of place and unnecessary on this badge. And this raises the suspicion that the item may be nothing more than a fantasy piece. Other questions are inevitably raised by this:
    1) If not strictly military, then to which formation did it belong? Most Skijager badges have only one ski on an angle. Most HJ Ski badges have two skis crossed. This one has two skis upright, which makes it look more like a Bergführer badge in some respects.
    2) If it is genuine, why is there no RZM mark on the back? It seems reasonable to suggest that if the political symbol had been superimposed on a civil organisation it should have required RZM approval. This raises other questions: Was the badge a private, and therefore unofficial purchase? Was this badge made in the very early days of the Nazi era, making it of pre-1935 manufacture? (It is important to note here that the RZM only became mandatory on political items in 1935, apparently to prevent the large-scale production of unauthorized items bearing the Swastika! In which case, this DRK badge may be one of the early pieces which "slipped through the net".) The badge appears to be Austrian and its design and manufacture is very close to the badges of the AlpinVerein and Bergführer, so it could well be an early piece which later failed to meet the approval of the Reich. Or perhaps this badge was a one-off private production which was then abandoned for whatever reason.
    3) There is no proof that it existed in photos from the era, but there is also no proof that it did not exist. This matter could easily be resolved if someone could produce a period photo showing this badge in wear.

    I am certain that a similar badge without the Swastika (which coincidently
    many experts say is the genuine one) was actually a pre-war DRK badge.

    What does worry me most about this badge is that it shows a Swastika yet
    there is no RZM mark on the back. Yet I guess we could also argue that the
    Red Cross was not a political organisation, therefore it did not require RZM
    authorisation. And there is the other possibility that I have already raised, that this badge is pre-RZM era.

    So if real, was it worn by the HJ, SS, SA Gruppe, or a special issue to the Skijager regiments, hence the skis, or only issued as a private purchase to certain Bergführers who qualified for the DRK?
    However, HJ Skijager badges nearly always show crossed skis, whereas
    Skijager badges generally have only one ski on an angle. This badge has two
    skis, straight up and down, which is odd! I can certainly understand why
    some experts think it is a fantasy item, but then again, it looks far too
    good to be a fake. Most fakes look cheap, this one looks professional and exquisite and is of period design and construction. Also, the pin clip attachment looks right for the period, when we compare them with other DRK badges.

    If anyone feels they can add to an understanding of this badge, please join in.

    Regards
    Ian


    #2
    tHESE ARE COPYS. mADE IN AROUND 1980'S. tHEY CAME WITH hj SKIE BADGES. produced most likly in Cezch republic

    Comment


      #3
      When I used to frequent (US) military shows in the 90s, I'd usually see a couple of these offered at each show. Rumor was they were a fantacy item. I have several enameled NSFK badges that are of beautiful quality - but are fakes, so I wouldn't rely on quality as a reliable discriminator.

      Scott

      Comment


        #4
        The problem I am having is that a few of these DRK badges show signs of considerable wear and age. If they are fakes, how could the fakers produce a batch of items that do not look identical? Did they throw some into bleach and then in a washing machine for a few days with pumice stones??

        I was always of the opinion that the HJ ski badge with crossed skis was a real item and was given out to HJ participants in mountain regions as a qualification badge. Many of these badges also show various signs of wear.

        So when does a fantasy item stop being a fantasy item and become a real item?

        I can remember not so long ago, the Polizei badge with paired yellow skis that is shown in the top right corner of this forum page, was considered to be a fantasy item.

        I pity any authentic badge that never got a photo taken of it during WW2.
        Last edited by gebirgaussie; 10-01-2005, 07:04 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          DRK Bergrettungsdeinst Badges . . .

          Hello,

          According to the correspondance I have received from the German / Bavarian Red Cross, These badges are original and were issued to Wehrmacht , specifically Gebirgsjaeger personnel in 1939-40.

          I have not translated the article they sent me yet, but when I do so, it will be posted here.


          Diane

          Comment


            #6
            Diane, can we give you some help on that article. I am anxious to hear what the modern German Red Cross has to say about activities in the III Reich. Usually such references are avoided in their publications. Did they state "These badges are original and were issued to Wehrmacht , specifically Gebirgsjaeger personnel in 1939-40." and then send you an article substantiating their claim? Is the article contemporary or WWII period?

            Comment


              #7
              DRK Archive

              Hello Joe,

              The DRK Archiv confirmed that the badge was an approved pattern, and issued during the period 1939-45.

              Most of their original archive was destroyed or lost during the war and early postwar years but a few things survive.

              I will translate the material they sent me and provide a scan of the original document.

              Several pictures have been posted in this forum over the last year that appear to show the badge in question being worn by both DRK and Gebirgjager personnel, but the images are not as clear as some would like.

              Unfortunately many still consider this a "fantasy" piece but I do not beleive this to be so.

              Diane


              Comment


                #8
                DRK Alpine Rescue Service Badge

                From a telephone discussion with a member of the DRK Archive it is beleived that this was a locally authorized badge of Wehrkreis VII (Munich).

                Below is a page from: Die Bergrettungsdienst in Bayern, Band 1: 1939-45





                My translation follows:

                Remarks: It was four years later, on 9. April 1937 that the Mountain Accident Service/Munich arose again under the name “Mountain Accident Service-Alert Formation “Brecherspitze” and constituted within the ranks of the Medics’-Column Munich a unit that was active to the utmost. In its medical training participated the famous members of the Himalaya Expeditions, Dr. Allwein and Dr. von Kraus.<o></o>

                (Anniversary notes, “75 Years of Medics’ Column/Munich,” 1950)
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                Special alert formations (Water Rescue- and Mountain Rescue alert units) will be designated by appropriate geographical names, for example: German Red Cross Alert Unit “Zugspitze.

                Service Regulation for the DRK 01.01.1938

                Many comrades of the German Red Cross do their duty at the front, in the Army Mountain Medic Service or in special deployment. The DRK [Brecherspitze] (Mountain Rescue Service) “Munich” is urgently seeking replacements. Training in First Aid will proceed in the coming months in the framework of a special course for the alpine medic- and rescue service. After training and testing and the issuance of a medical certificate, the assignment to Army service and employment as a medic can follow. Mountain climbers and skiers, who have grown to maturity exerting themselves in the mountains, who are at least seventeen years of age before the end of winter, and are ready the save the lives and health of Folk Comrades who have suffered mishaps in the mountains, will want to report in person or in writing to the DRK Kreis Office “Munich-City.” (Excerpt, unknown newspaper).
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                1941Cooperation at last?
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                04.04.1941 – “As leader of the Mountain Rescue Command in the area of State Office VII is decree the following order:
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                Comrades of the Mountain Accident Service!
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                The managing President of the DRK (German Red Cross), SS-Brigadef******252;hrer Dr. Grawitz, has concluded an agreement with the leader of the German Alpine Union, Herr Reichsminister Seyss-Inquart, on the regulation of rescue operations in the German Alpine area in Salzburg on 17 August 1939.
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                This agreement has been endorsed by the Reichssportf******252;hrer von Tschammer und Osten on 24 August 1939. <o></o>
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                In accord with this agreement, the DRK has renounced an independent organizational role in Alpine Rescue and Recovery services, and the DRK will be responsible for the medical aspect of the Rescue Service and the German Alpine Union simultaneously renounces the establishment of its own independent medical service. <o></o>
                <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
                As a consequence of agreement that binds us as DRK members, I have established a mountain rescue command within the DRK State Office VII and assigned those DRK County Offices that were previously employed in the Mountain Accident Service to the Mountain Rescue Service leaders on the staffs of each county office. These are responsible for the Alpine-Technical portion of the Mountain Rescue Service.

                End


                Although these passages do not describe a special badge, they do detail a special traning course. The DRK Archivists beleive that a locally produced badge was produced and awarded, but at this time I am not yet able to fully document this.





                .
                Last edited by Diane; 01-29-2007, 12:07 PM. Reason: Typo

                Comment


                  #9
                  Alpine Rettungsdienst Badge in use

                  Here is a poor quality image of the badge in use.

                  This was originaly scanned from a period Newspaper and posted by another memeber of the WAF about a year ago.




                  Although NOT definitive proof this badge is the same as I posted, what could it be?





                  .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    No comments?

                    Hi guys,

                    I'd like to keep this discussion going.

                    Are there any comments or questions about the translated document or the picture of the badge in wear that I posted?

                    Does anyone have any of these DRK badges that they can share? I would be interested in seeing any badges that differ from the one I posted.

                    Thanks.


                    Diane





                    .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I used to have one in the case...I'll see if I can get a pic from the fellow who owns it now...

                      Cheers,
                      Arran.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for the documentation. However I still do not see this as proof that the badge exisited I'm afraid. There isn't even a mention of one, just a cirtificate to be issued, & as we've discussed before, the image is just too poor.

                        Shame as I would love these to be real, but I still don't see it

                        Cheers
                        Don

                        Comment


                          #13
                          So what could it be?

                          Hi Don,

                          The period image of the Soldier wearing what closely resembles the DRK Badge in question should raise some questions.

                          Just what could the badge in the photo be, if NOT the DRK Moutain Rescue Badge?

                          What other badge / Insignia / Pin closely resembles the badge?

                          Here is a photo posted by Fred Fogelmann of his Grandfather:




                          At least Two men in this photo appear to be wearing the same badge.

                          Please also view this thread for more information.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            As I have mentioned before, I have seen badges like these on display in Bavarian museums (and just before Christmas in a Saltzburg display) without the Swastika, clearly labelled as the wartime alpine rescue badge. Those could just as easily be the ones seen in these photos. I also agree with Richard on the other thread when he says that he can't see any sign of where the skis are on the badge.


                            Also we cannot be sure that the cross in the newspaper photo has not been altered as it does seem very dark compared to the rest of the image....

                            As I've said before I really do want these to be original but I still do not see concreate evidence yet, only possibly's & maybe's... The document, whilst a step in the right direction, doesn't even mention an autorisation for a badge, only that a "medical certificate" will be issued.

                            Here's a badge that Bill Shea is offering as period as well, perhaps this is what's in the image?

                            Cheers
                            Don
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Don Scowen; 01-30-2007, 02:12 PM. Reason: adding image

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi.

                              This badge is in a lot that I just bought containing a lot of medals and badges (Still waiting for the mailman).
                              All the medals and badges are 100% original, but I'm not sure of this one.
                              I do belive that these badges was in use, but as Don says, there is no proof that they really wore. I hope that one day a picture will come up with this badge in use.

                              Best regards,
                              André
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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