Pz.Gren.Rgt. 200

[valsente]

Hi guys,
could anyone tell me who signed this award document?
Thanks in advance
Val

[naxos]

I read: Stangl or Stange

[Brian R]

Is this a standalone document? I'd be very skeptical of any combat badge award using this format. There are real ones, but many have been used by fakers.

The date as well as the Kompanie level award also give me doubts.

[valsente]

Is this a standalone document? I'd be very skeptical of any combat badge award using this format. There are real ones, but many have been used by fakers.

The date as well as the Kompanie level award also give me doubts.

Not this is the third and more important document of 4: Wound badge in black, panzer badge and Sardinien shild doc.

[naxos]

Not this is the third and more important document of 4: Wound badge in black, panzer badge and Sardinien shild doc.

Brian has a point - can we see the other documents?

[valsente]

[valsente]

[valsente]

[naxos]

I like all the other documents but I'm not sure about the CCC award

Note the difference in the quality of stamps and print.

Also it's weird that it has exactly the same angle to the left.

I'm undecided, judging from the scans -

[Brian R]

I like the other award documents too. My concerns with the NKS document are...

1. As stated, these generic documents are troubling. I'm not sure I've ever seen more than one or two that are original, and the few I have seen were awarded on Wehrkreis level - a level that would make sense given that they were tasked with awarding various types of awards (combat or bravery) depending on the circumstances.

2. NKS award documents were generally done on Regiment level. A Kompanie level award gives me reservations.

3. The award of an NKS on October 3, 1943 to this unit is odd given that they were stationed in Sardinia. It's certainly possible that he was decorated for actions over the previous months and this is catch-up paperwork, but this is unusual.

4. There is no Iron Cross. He certainly could have been awarded an EK (or both classes) and the awards and documents missing. But the fact that he was wounded in late 1941 and then, somehow saw enough action after his recovery to be award an NKS but no EK, is troubling.

5. He was wounded in late 1941 and could have returned to the front in late 1942 or 1943. Or, he could have been convalescing for a longer period and then joined the regiment as it was forming in Sardinia.

This document could certainly be fine and I'm just making a mountain out of a mole hill. But, this document type is often used by fakers because of its fill-in ability and it's strange that if it was legitimately used, it was done by a Kompanie on Sardinia.

I can't help but think that this is a good group that was "enhanced" with a NKS award. The Wound Badge document for fighting in Russia (with a long recovery) and then the PAB in Bronze for fighting in Italy later on seems to be a more believable scenario. The NKS thrown in seems improbable. I certainly could be wrong, though.

B

[Brian R]

Here is another clue for the kompanie. We don't have dates to work with here, and guys could have certainly transferred or were reassigned (as you can see, this guy was a komp.-fhr so he was not permanent). But, this is a different commander. Does anyone have a good record of company commanders for this regiment? It's from this thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=sardinia

[naxos]

This one is signed by Oblt. Kohlhaas

[mufasa]

I like the other award documents too. My concerns with the NKS document are...

3. The award of an NKS on October 3, 1943 to this unit is odd given that they were stationed in Sardinia. It's certainly possible that he was decorated for actions over the previous months and this is catch-up paperwork, but this is unusual.





B

in fact on a award of an NKS of 200 Pz.Gren.Reg. I could not understand on this date .....


while the Panzerkampfabzeichen October 1944 is very intriguing.

ciao Oriano

[valsente]

I have reconstituted the history of the 90 from several documents found during my research. Unfortunately it is written in Italian so I can only submit the automatic translation with Google. I hope you are interested:


The 90.Panzergrenadier-Division was born as 90th Light Infantry Division and fought with the Afrikakorps until its collapse in Tunisia. It was reconstituted in spring 1943 in Sardinia where he remained until September 1943 submitted to the "Command Italian Armed Forces (Armed Forces) of Sardinia".
Herbert Schwarz, had not fought in Africa but had joined the reconstituted 90. Grenadier Division with the rank of Obergefreiter, coming dall'Infanterie Regiment 46 of Division 30.Infanterie with whom he participated in the Campaign of France and then to ' invasion of the Soviet Union.
In July 1941, the Division began the attack north of Demyansk between Lushno and Lychkova. I l October 17 Herbert Schwarz was wounded and received the 18/02/1942 Badge for black can wound .
E 'likely that, upon return from convalescence, has been chosen to go to form the NCOs cadres Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 2 Sardinien renamed then Panzergrenadier Regiment 200 .
As at September 8, 1943 l and most reliable estimates possible to attribute the German forces stationed in Sardinia a total workforce of only 30,000 men, but the core was formed by 90.Panzer-Grenadier-Division , which also framed a hundred tanks and self-propelled carriages for nite long cannon, 75 mm.
The Jodl Report concerning the troops, materials and weapons moved to Corsica, it allows to also evaluate the Germanic firepower: " 25,800 men, 3,850 vehicles, 4,765 tons of various supplies, 1,130 machine guns, 281 big rifles antitank, 49 mortars, 6 guns of medium caliber anti-tank and 78-caliber, 12 guns for infantry small-caliber and 12-caliber, 62 tanks, 37 self-propelled guns, 23 vehicles transport troops, two howitzers of small arms and 8 large-bore, 4 cannons 100 mm, 119 mm cannons 88, 147 artillery pieces of 200 mm and 30 anti-aircraft cannons quadrinati 20 mm " .
Marshal Kesse lr ing, head of the South Military Sector, being unable to afford to keep locked in Sardinia major forces needed elsewhere, commissioned Generalleutnant Carl Hans Lungershausen , first commander of the 90th Division, to transfer as soon as his d ivisione in Tuscany , passing for Corsica.
On the night of September 9, he reached an agreement with the Italian command in which the methods of evacuation were established. At dawn on September 9, the t edeschi they began to abandon their positions, both on the coasts as in the interior, after destroying non-transportable materials. Abiding by the director agreed, German troops reached the Alta Gallura taking control of the junction of Temple, from Olbia Port and the coastal strip until the maritime center of Santa Teresa, in which flowed departments to be transferred by sea. This was accompanied by a massive airlift activated Venafiorita between the airport and Pisa, making full use of three-engined Junkers 52. On 15 September Lungerhausen, to speed the evacuation, he made clear that both Temple La Maddalena, as well the "Logistics Zone" of Monti and Olbia. The Venafiorita airport was abandoned last, after having blown up the track and destroyed 21 fighters of the Royal Air Force, thus depriving the Italian troops of air cover.
In retaliation the General Basso, commander of the Italian troops, anticipated the offensive. The attack was successful, mainly because it took place in the most critical phase for the edeschi, when they were crammed in the Santa Teresa di Gallura area. However, the destruction advocated by the High Command to gain prestige in the eyes of the Allies there was not an offensive merely modest clashes with the German rearguard, that exploiting natural handholds and using road detours minefields were able to contain it. In the late afternoon of September 18 it was also reached Santa Teresa, by which time the last echelon German traghettabile had left the land of Sardinia .

D fter a series of battles with Italian troops stationed in Corsica trying to sbarrarle up north, also evacuated from that island by sea from Bastia through the island of Elba and was established in Tuscany. At the end of the month it was located near Pisa. The command of the Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 200 , which was part of the Unteroffizier Herbert Schwarz, was hired on July 1 by Major Heinrich Baron von Behr who guided him throughout the retreat from Sardinia, through Corsica , and in the fighting with Italian troops and partisans courses. On 4 October 1943 Herbert Schawarz was decorated with Nahkampfspange in Bronze ( Finger melee 1st class ), probably because of having actively participated in these defensive battles.
Reorganized, it was transferred to the Adriatic Sea Gatteo to 23 October. In mid-November it was sent Orsogna in the area where he fought in the river valley Moro and near Ortona, at its mouth, subject to LXXVI. Panzer Armee dell'Heeresgruppe C. of 10.
In December 1943, the division under the command of Generalleutnant Ernst-Günther Baade , was transferred to Lazio, as a reserve dell'Heersgruppe B, behind the front of Cassino near Rome. In January 1944 he was assigned to 10.Armee with which was used on the Gothic Line, in the area between the coast and Castelforte, Ausente over the river that divides the provinces of Latina and Frosinone, in Monte Claus at Santa Maria Infante north of Minto and near Formia. From January he fought at Cassino , where day 27 the Pz.-Gren-Regt. 200 repelled an attack of overwhelming French forces. On February 1, his commander Heinrich Baron von Behr was promoted to Oberst (Colonel) and the day 23 received Ritterkreuz.
After the battle of Cassino, the division was withdrawn in early March and transferred in Roma-Ostia as a reserve of the armed group. After the first half of May it starts again at the front and fighting in the Liri Valley, in the Pignataro-Pontecorvo, where he took part in the Third Battle of Cassino.
The 90.Panzergrenadier-Division retires on Melfa, between the course of the Liri and the Via Casilina, then touches Frosinone, Ferentino, Fiuggi, Piglio, Genazzano, reaches and enters Rieti in Umbria. Transferred in Grosseto, Sorano in the division fought east of Mount Amiata, near Volterra, Laiatico, Villamagna, Certaldo and Castelfiorentino and reach the Arno positions at Castelfranco di Sotto and Fucecchio.

The division suffered heavy losses is transferred at the end of July beyond the Apennines near Modena and Parma, before being moved to Piedmont over the Western Alps for fear of a landing in the Genoa area. It was submitted to the LXXV. Armee-Korps Armée Liguria.
On August 19, the division began operating in Piedmont. His troops conquered the steps of the border between Italy and France and facilitate the return of the German units retreating from southern France.
In September she was transferred all'OZAK (Operationszone A driatisches Küstenland) in the Rimini area because of the breaching of the Gothic Line carried the 8th British Army. Throughout the month of October fought in the area of Rimini under the LXXVI Panzer Corps of 10.Armee then retreating around Bologna, where he fought until February 1945 at the I.Fallschirmkorps dependencies.
On 27 December 1944, Oberst von Behr temporarily assumed command of the division that led shortly after the Battle of Savignano vomr responsible for the defense of Bologna . For this action he received the Oak Leaves for his Ritterkreuz on 01/09/1945. On April 1, 1945 was formally appointed commander of the division with which he retired on the Po River where he tried to stand up before retiring to Lake Garda and finally surrender to the British on April 28, 1945.
Like his commander also Unteroffizier Herbert Schwarz soppravisse the war and its memorabilia, certificates and decorations have come on the collectors' market about ten years ago, after their dispersion by the heirs.

[valsente]

Hi Brian,
thank you for your cooperation and for your right consideration. I'm afraid you're right about this document. In fact, it does not seem logical either to have received the PAB in 1944 and the CCC in October 1943. The lack of documents for the EK makes it all the more doubtful.
It is therefore likely that someone wanted to improve the lot by adding this document even if it was to be a particularly skilled forgery and aware of the history of the division. I do not understand why he did not date it at the end of 1944 when everything would have been more credible.