SS fake EK2 Urkunde

[Kyle Harrington]

More of these are cropping up at auction houses a supposed EK2 document for a SS Wiking soldier. The date is October 1941 the unit stamp indicates " 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking" the division was two years away from being designated as such.

[Kyle Harrington]

Stamp unit designation

Pic 2 I have informed the auction house and have yet to receive a reply

[matthias_AC]

"Adjutant" is spelled incorrectly as well... it's spelled with a t instead of a d. Another bad sign.

[stgeorge64]

The signature looks like it has been written with a ball-point pen!

Regards Richard.

[Brian R]

The date, unit, awarding authority, the paper quality, etc. are wrong. The whole thing is a mess and really shouldn’t fool anyone.

[unglesbeemj]

Thanks for sharing this Kyle. Can only agree with Brian. Bad enough as a stand alone but even worse when one of these is added to a document grouping. Essential for paper collectors to have a solid grasp of the history behind the documents.

[Kyle Harrington]

Pissed off

Proudly offered by C&T auctions tomorrow; some poor sap will fall for this.Experts of course in the field of militaria! Three e mails all ignored by the way including the man with "expertise". No wonder people walk away I know you should study and research however that is us who try a little harder, no consolation for some newbee at his keyboard who desperately wants this item.

[Tomoko]

There is so much wrong with this document but not everyone is experienced or owns countless of documents, i can see how a document like this will fool someone who wants to get into collecting of historical items, which must be prevented because nothing is worse than starting a new expensive hobby and then losing money the first time you buy something.

Regarding words being written wrong like matthias_AC pointed out, i must add that as a collector of Urkunden, mostly Waffen SS ones, that this happened way more often than you'd think.
I'm not sure why that is but one of my grandfathers who was in the SS-VT and then in the 1. Waffen SS Division LAH and later as well as inbetween involved in anti-partisan / anti-maquis action and anti-partisan training told me that way too many of the people responsible for finishing these Urkunden had a bad education regarding the german language. Some came from poor families and could barely get proper education after the end of World War I. That's his explanation for this at least.

One of his own Urkunden for his Bandenkampfabzeichen in Silber has a rather stupid misspelling as well.
I'll scan and upload it and post it in here sometime within the next few days for those interested



Grüße

[Brian R]

I don’t think Matthias is using the misspelling as the reason the document is bad. He’s saying it’s one of many.

People who have no experience with award documents shouldn’t get their feet wet with “advanced” pieces like this anyway. SS collecting is a minefield. Having no knowledge about this stuff and then going straight to SS is a great way to lose money.

[Tom B]

I don’t think Matthias is using the misspelling as the reason the document is bad. He’s saying it’s one of many.

People who have no experience with award documents shouldn’t get their feet wet with “advanced” pieces like this anyway. SS collecting is a minefield. Having no knowledge about this stuff and then going straight to SS is a great way to lose money.

Yes I agree. Tom

[matthias_AC]

There is so much wrong with this document but not everyone is experienced or owns countless of documents, i can see how a document like this will fool someone who wants to get into collecting of historical items, which must be prevented because nothing is worse than starting a new expensive hobby and then losing money the first time you buy something.

Regarding words being written wrong like matthias_AC pointed out, i must add that as a collector of Urkunden, mostly Waffen SS ones, that this happened way more often than you'd think.
I'm not sure why that is but one of my grandfathers who was in the SS-VT and then in the 1. Waffen SS Division LAH and later as well as inbetween involved in anti-partisan / anti-maquis action and anti-partisan training told me that way too many of the people responsible for finishing these Urkunden had a bad education regarding the german language. Some came from poor families and could barely get proper education after the end of World War I. That's his explanation for this at least.

One of his own Urkunden for his Bandenkampfabzeichen in Silber has a rather stupid misspelling as well.
I'll scan and upload it and post it in here sometime within the next few days for those interested



Grüße

Brian is right here. It's just one of many signs that should make one question the citation.

I actually agree with you that spelling errors can be found on documents, and the explanation your grandfather gave makes sense. However, they are rather rare and in times of well made fakes such errors should be examined carefully and put in context. If the rest of the documents seems genuine the error is probably too, but if there are other signs that indicate the document might well be fake the spelling error could be another piece of the puzzle and support the assumption.

My opinion.

[Kyle Harrington]

Sold!!!!

After ignoring three emails the EK2 Urkunde sold for £120.00 plus commission and pp . C&T Auctions expertise at your service !

[EZEKIEL]

Hello

Same faker production ? Same error...

For sale recently on a french website.

[Tom B]

tom

[Brian R]

Here it is because of the outside link. I don't think it is the same faker but do agree that it is fake due to the unit, awarding authority and signature.