Joachim Peiper - Recommendation for Oakleave to the KC

[wolfslair44]

Sold today at auction for $3,500. If anyone here bought it, would love to have the transcription of the accounts.

[M B CHISHOLM]

I would think a document of that caliber would command quite a few times that amount.. But then again I'm not a paper collector... But still

[chrisje110]

For sure not the real one, If it would be real it would be in the 20-50k range, if not more.

[stgeorge64]

Sold today at auction for $3,500. If anyone here bought it, would love to have the transcription of the accounts.

Do you have any more details or a link to the Auction House sale at all?

I for one, would certainly be interested in seeing this piece.

Regards Richard.

[hucks216]

For sure not the real one, If it would be real it would be in the 20-50k range, if not more.

Certainly looks like a real one. Looks like one that could of come from the German archives a few decades ago.

[wolfslair44]

Here are the photos.

[wolfslair44]

Two more.

[Brian R]

One would think something like this would go for a lot more money, but Vorschlagslisten don't sell for nearly the premium of actual award documents. In many ways, these recommendations are far more interesting.

The other issue is that these documents were likely smuggled out from the archives years ago. So, they are arguably stolen property but it's a question of whether or not the German authorities want to pursue them and have them returned. Some folks were charged with these thefts years ago, and the authorities' current position is unclear. That said, it may be hard for some collectors to pay a premium for them when they could be (although unlikely) confiscated. I'm not judging the auction house here, because I don't know the circumstances in how they recently became available for sale. But, they were not always a part of the collectors' market.

[Adem]

Interesting that they're not the same document.

[Bern]

Good eyes Adem, the hand writing on the first page of each document is totally different. So, I'm assuming that this would point to one being a forgery?
Regards
Bern

[hucks216]

That is a good spot. Notice on the authorising signature on the auction image the diagonal stroke on the first letter of the name goes across the top of the O in the rank while in the archive scan it goes below. Were multiple copies of these produced?

[JUNGCO]

Hucks, to answer your question, there had to be. I've had two in hand and you could see they were carbon copies. If you have a carbon copy, there must be an original.
Jeff

[Brian R]

Jeff is right. They were typically produced as two or three copies and sent up the various chains of command by courier. The general rule was that they were also reproduced when they went from the P5 offices at OKH to Hitler.

A look at the signatures and writing shows that the auction example and the archive example are different. But it seems reasonable to assume they were both in the same place at some point. It's a matter of when, and when they were separated.

[wolfslair44]

So is consensus this is an original? If anyone is bored and wants to translate, I would be fascinated to read the story for the recommendation for the award.

[markus]

I assume the recommendation also bears a (Sepp) Dietrich signature on the last page on behalf of the I. SS-Pz. Korps 'Leibstandarte'.

If I recall correctly Peiper's preliminary OL document does not exist (anymore) and there's no surviving preliminary award document for the swords to a soldier of the Leibstandarte either, only two Soldbücher, Teddy Wisch's and Sepp Dietrich's. (Otto Kumm was awarded the swords for his command of 'Prinz Eugen'. - The swords were awarded physically a the command post of the 1. SS-Panzer-Division 'LSSAH,' and it was Peiper who borrowed his set of swords to Kumm for the ceremony since there was no award physically available at the CP for Kumm at the time).

Cheers,
Markus