unknown german tank

[schoellbier]

Hello,

do someone know the type of this tank and which unit is it ?

Thank you for your help.

Uwe

[kerryboo]

Uwe,
I am no expert, I am sure that they will fill the gaps, but I think this is a British A13 cruiser tank of the First Armoured Division,
Kerry.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

Uwe, do you have more background info on the picture ?
Was it found in a German photo album ?
Kerry is right, it is showing an A13 Mk. II cruiser tank (also known as Cruiser Tank Mk. IV type) from the 2nd Armoured Brigade (white standing rhino emblem) of the 1st Armoured Division.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_(U...gdom)_Division

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Ar...United_Kingdom)

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30071687

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis..._(World_War_II)

http://www.britishmilitaryhistory.co...&nid=4&start=0

The unit was "saved" and escaped from France from Brest, but all the tanks were lost/destroyed before the escape.

270 A13 Mk. II were produced, and it is said that around 40 Cruiser Mk. IV were used by the 1st Armoured Brigade were used by the BEF in France 1940. All were lost.
The Cruiser Tank line was a failure, especially due to poor mechanical capacities.

A nice page with a dozen of pictures of Cruiser Mk. IV of the 1st Armoured Brigade :

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/galle...-iv-a13-mk-ii/

Amongst them, a very similar tank (picture included here), depending on the company/section, the emblem/color of markings were placed in different places (same in other Allied and Axis forces, best example the Tiger companies of the Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 101).

I'm pretty sure that books and messageboards may identify more closely the tank and the location, but here are more infos on the unit :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruiser_Mk_IV

http://tankarchives.blogspot.fr/2016...re-armour.html

Interesting info from this blog :

Under a Foreign Flag

The Cruiser Tank Mk.IV was the only cruiser tank included in the BEF that was massively used by the Germans. Its new masters tried it out during the French campaign of 1940. The Kreuzer Panzerkampfwagen Mk IV 744 (e) was used as it was captured, without even a new paint job. Cosmetic changes were limited to painting over the British identifying marks and addition of the Balkenkreuz. After the French Campaign, the Germans no longer used Cruiser Tanks Mk.IVA and B, at least in Western Europe.

After the 1940 campaign, several tanks (up to six) made it to the proving grounds at Kummersdorf. The other tanks were spread out between training and active units. In February of 1941, 9 tanks were transferred to Beutepanzer-Kompanie (e) within Pz.Abt. (Flamm) 100. There is also information about the use of the Kreuzer Panzerkampfwagen Mk IV 744 (e) by police units.

Tanks that were used by training units were not changed significantly. Some tanks even retained British camouflage. Tanks from Pz.Abt. (Flamm) 100 were also mostly unchanged from the fall of 1940 to spring of 1941. Notek night lights were installed, the tanks were painted in a German grey, and unit markings were added. As for tanks that were sent to the front lines, that story is more interesting. The modernization was systematic: all tanks were altered in the same way.

First, tanks from Pz.Abt. (Flamm) 100 received new tracks, borrowed from the Pz.Kpfw.II Ausf. D1. The change might seem strange if one does not consider that the donor tank was essentially the German vision of a cruiser tank. The cause of this replacement was unknown, it was possible that the new tracks were simply longer lasting.

A bigger change compared to the original design was the addition of wooden shelves along the sides for fuel canisters, located behind the skirt armour. Holders for canisters were also added on the fenders. Front and rear mudguards were replaced with simplified ones. At the same time, the side elements of the fenders were removed.

In addition to standard lights, Notek night driving lights were added to the front and rear. The muffler was partially covered by a screen, and a mount for an unditching log was added. At least one tank from Pz.Abt. (Flamm) 100 (turret number 265) received a movable tow hook for a Renault UE trailer. Almost all Kreuzer Panzerkampfwagen Mk IV 744 (e) in Pz.Abt. (Flamm) 100 were of the later type, and only tank #142 was from the early series.

Converted tanks were used in the first days of the Great Patriotic War. Tanks from Pz.Abt. (Flamm) 100 of the 18th Tank Division were included in the 2nd Tank Group of Army Group Center. The battalion participated in the assault on Brest Fortress and later fought in Belarus. However, the combat career of the Kreuzer Panzerkampfwagen Mk IV 744 (e) was not long. By July 11th, 1941, three weeks after combat began, the battalion no longer had a single tank of this type. Most were lost due to breakdowns.

Aside from Europe, the Cruiser Tank Mk.IVA fought under a foreign flag in North Africa. As of July 23rd, 1941, the German 5th Light Division had two Cruiser Tanks Mk.IVA. These vehicles were lost by September 12th. Aside from the Germans, the Italians used captured tanks, both as tanks and as immobile pillboxes. Unlike tanks that fought on the Eastern Front, the African trophies were not altered at all. They did not even have new markings.

See You

Vince

[schoellbier]

Hello Vince,

thank you very much for your help. I got the picture with some other pictures of France from a estate of a german soldier. Sorry, that I have no more Information. I got only the Pictures.

Thank you again for your detailed help.

Uwe

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hello Uwe,

the markings of your tank can help to identify the actual section of the unit.

See You

Vince

[byterock]

Triangle on the turret so A squadron of one either the

9th Queen's Royal Lancers if the photo was taken near Dunkirk or the 10th Royal Hussars (Prince of Wales's Own) if near Calais

This PDF and some time might give you the exact unit.

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

byterock, many thanks for your help, i'm not a super specialist of the British Army, but it was exactly what i knew someone could provide !

[Uwe : your tank is from the A Squadron of the 9th Queen's Royal Lancers OR the 10th Royal Hussars (Prince of Wales's Own) which are the two main units of the 2nd Armoured Brigade (of the 1st Armoured Division)]

See You

Vince

[byterock]

Post it on the UK and Commonwealth thread some much more knowledgeable types there on the BEF in 39~40

By the way this is one of the few mk III r eworked to Mk IV standard (vickers gun vs besa)

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

yes, i was planning to propose that to Uwe.

See You

Vince

[schoellbier]

Hello Vince and byterock,

I Show it here http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...39#post7657739

Greetings from Germany,
Uwe

[FrenchVolunteer]

Hi,

thanks Uwe, i had too much work today, i was unable to prepare a topic for you.

See You

Vince