Modern Wittmann fake document at Ratisbon

[Jeremy]

Here is the latest example of a fake Wittmann which are appearing more and more.

[Jeremy]

Same crap

Here are more of the same.

[Ludwig]

Ouch! That is really something. Something really bad...

[Tom B]

I hope the word gets out !

[Ludwig]

I just wonder what more Scheisse there is on that homepage...

[butschekantiques]

I would like to here why this document is fake please.
Thanks.

[Jeremy]

Erh on what basis are the documents authentic please? You are selling them as authentic so I think you should justify the sale accordingly. Post some authentic Wittmann signed documents you have referred to to authenticate the one in your auction to support your selling of the item in question.

[butschekantiques]

This particular document is currently on display at the Kassel fair and was inspected by many international specialists. We have several customers being interest in it. No one could see anything wrong with it at Kassel including myself. In addition, the consignor states he owns the document since several years. So much to to "latest examples of fakes".
As always, we of course offer full guarantee on this item.

[Jeremy]

So you have some unknown people at Kassel telling you?! Who are the international specialists?

Many? How many international specialists? Let's be precise here please. They would be autograph and document specialists of course.

You had it for sale at Kassel before any comment. Based on what did you determine authenticity? How did you determine nothing was wrong with it? I am interested in your approach to stating authenticity.

How many years did the consigner own it for? How does this relate in any way to authenticity? People have owned fake factory items for 10 years. That does not make them any way authentic.

[butschekantiques]

So you have some unknown people at Kassel telling you?!

Who is "Jeremy"?

[greg9069]

very interesting post!
I find that there are differences with the other document you posted
Grégory

[Ludwig]

very interesting post!
jeremy how you know the signature is good on your document?

Grégory

I don´t think Jeremy is showing us any originals, just some more fakes!

[greg9069]

Can someone posted an original?

[Ludwig]

I might be wrong, but I strongly doubt, that Wittmann had this kind of letterhead...

[Jeremy]

As Ludwig says, I show 3 similar fakes IMO together.

My point is that Klaus is selling a document (and the Marseille one) for financial gain at Ratisbon and is unable to indicate the basis of his determination it is authentic. His comment about 'many international specialists' is worthless.


Of course, he doesn't have to indicate why he thinks it is authentic on this forum, but his unwillingness or inability to do so reflects poorly on him. I think it's fair enough to raise concerns here and question him. He put it up for sale on his site, so he obviously thinks it's authentic but doesn't know why he thinks so. He just sees commission.

From what I see, a few fakes are now creeping in at Ratisbon including IMO a dubious Meyer and a fake factory Beisswenger which was added to a grouping.