Catholic Clergy at the Reichstag

[lohengrin]

Dear all,

Perhaps an unusual request, but I hope that someone could assist me.

A friend of mine owns a photograph of several Catholic Clergy at Reichstag in Berlin and in front of some castle (Wewelsburg???) near Paderborn.

I wanted to know, on an off chance that there is Catholic Church researcher among you, if anyone at all recognizes these 4 officials of the Church.

I am not even sure if these are Cardinals or Bishops or if they are German, Italian etc.

I will try to get the whole photograph in front of the Reichstag, but in the mean time, here are close-up pictures of the 4 officials...

Warm regards,

Lohengrin

[lohengrin]

and the other two...

[Br. James]

Well, it's difficult to tell a cardinal from a bishop in b/w photos -- red and purple look pretty much the same without color -- and there is no distinctive difference in the style of what each rank wears, given that cardinals are also usually bishops. Of course, you understand that cardinals wear bright red on cassocks, zucchetti, sashes and piping, while bishops and archbishops wear purple on those articles of dress. From these pix I would guess that the fellow in the right-hand photo in your note #1 might have been a cardinal, while the other three ecclesiastical gents were all at least bishops...but again, without the benefit of color, it's only a guess!

Sorry that I don't have my library available to me to try and ID these four -- I'm in the process of moving and my library is in many boxes! Hopefully others here will be able to give you some info on who these Most Reverend Sirs were.

How do you/your friend know that these pix were taken at the Reichstag? It looks like there was a whole group of clergy present for whatever event was taking place. I suppose they could have been seated in the visitors' gallery...

Cheers,

Br. James

[lohengrin]

Dear Br. James,

Thank you for the kind reply.

The photo is of about 30 members of the clergy during the visit to the Reichstag (according to the inscription).

I thought that one of the priests could be Karl Joseph Schulte (Achbishop of Cologne) and the third man the papal nuncio Cesare Orsenigo or Frantisek Kordac Archbishop of Prague, but I am no longer sure that is the case.

As far as I can find there were only the following Bishops in Germany between 1920 and 1940:

Wilhelm Berning, bishop of Osnabrück (1914–1955)
Cardinal Adolf Bertram, archbishop of Breslau, ex officio head of the German episcopate (1914–1945)
Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, archbishop of Munich (1917–1952)
Josef Frings, archbishop of Cologne (1942–1969)
Clemens August Graf von Galen, bishop of Munster (1933–1946)
Conrad Gröber, archbishop of Freiburg (1932–1948)
Jacobus von Hauck, archbishop of Bamberg (1912–1943)
Caspar Klein, archbishop of Paderborn (1920–1941)
Johannes Dietz, bishop of Fulda (1939–1958)
Petrus Legge, bishop of Dresden-Meissen (1932–1951)
Cardinal Karl Joseph Schulte, archbishop of Cologne (1920–1941)
Konrad von Preysing, bishop of Berlin (1935–1950)
Christian Schreiber, Bishop of Meissen (1921-1930)
Carl Fritz, archbishop of Freiburg (1920–1931)
Johannes Poggenburg, bishop of Munster (1913–1933)

Thanks,

Lohengrin

[Tony T-S]

They are interesting photos as the second one appears to be wearing a coloured Soutane (part of choir dress) rather than the black piped Soutanes the other three wear (walking out/ every day dress of the time). This would normally have a white cotta over it. I think the third photo is of a Cardinal (as Br James says, impossible to tell in b&w), as his cincture is made of wave pattern silk where as the other three sport a more plain material. This is a guess as the regulation that this should be so comes from a much later time post Vatican II.

[Br. James]

Good observations, Tony, though I presumed that the piping and the buttons on the three bishops wearing 'house dress' were purple...but again, that's deceptive in b/w. All four are definitely bishops, IMO, as that is the ecclesiastical rank entitled to wear the pectoral cross. Cardinals are occasionally seen wearing the red cassock and cincture without the soutane -- as the bright red color is sufficient to set cardinals off from bishops/archbishops!

Since Lohengrin has a list of the bishops, archbishops and cardinals who served in Germany during the TR era, one could Google each of those names in the hope of finding photos of those episcopal gentlemen with which to compare to the four in these photos.

Br. James

[lohengrin]

Thank you for all that great help

Here are some photos of German (and other) bishops for comparison:

1 - Wilhelm Berning, bishop of Osnabrück (1914–1955)
2 - Cardinal Adolf Bertram, archbishop of Breslau (1914–1945)

I do not think that either is on the photo...

Sources: http://archives.leforumcatholique.or...h=2&num=557299 and http://www.rothenburg-unterm-hakenkr...alsozialismus/

[lohengrin]

3 - Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, archbishop of Munich (1917–1952)
4 - Josef Frings, archbishop of Cologne (1942–1969)

Again, I do not think either of them is on the photo...

Source: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&GRid=22422179 and http://koelner-dom.de/index.php?id=1...af852aa37b7920

[Tony T-S]

The bishops would have red piping and red buttons (RC style) rather than purple.

[lohengrin]

5 - Clemens August Graf von Galen, bishop of Munster (1933–1946)
6 - Conrad Gröber, archbishop of Freiburg (1932–1948)

Again, both are unlikely

Source: http://ebfr.mobi/html/erzbischof_con...oeber.html?t=& and Wikipedia

[lohengrin]

The bishops would have red piping and red buttons (RC style) rather than purple.

Please forgive me my ignorance - but does it mean that they are likely not bishops? would they be higher rank (cardinals, Archbishops etc) or perhaps Monsignors, Canons etc?

[lohengrin]

7- Jacobus von Hauck, archbishop of Bamberg (1912–1943)
8 - Caspar Klein, archbishop of Paderborn (1920–1941)
9 - Johannes Dietz, bishop of Fulda (1939–1958)
10 - Petrus Legge, bishop of Dresden-Meissen (1932–1951)

No match...?

Sources: Wikipedia and http://osthessen-news.de/n1175262/fu...gen-nazis.html

[lohengrin]

11 - Cardinal Karl Joseph Schulte, archbishop of Cologne (1920–1941)
12 - Konrad von Preysing, bishop of Berlin (1935–1950)

I thought that Cardinal Schulte could have been one of them....

Source: http://konstantinmanthey.blogspot.co...hrung-von.html and http://www.rothenburg-unterm-hakenkr...alsozialismus/

[lohengrin]

13 - Christian Schreiber, Bishop of Meissen (1921-1930)
14 - Nicolaus Bares, bishop of Berlin (1934–1935)
15 - Franz Rudolf Bornewasser, bishop of Trier (1922–1951)
16 - Franz Justus Rarkowski, Field Bishop of the German Army (1938-1945)

Sources: Wikipedia, http://konstantinmanthey.blogspot.co...hrung-von.html and http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/cloth-...graphs-584990/

[lohengrin]

17 - Carl Fritz, archbishop of Freiburg (1920–1931)
18 - Johannes Poggenburg, bishop of Munster (1913–1933)
19 - papal nuncio Cesare Orsenigo

Source: Wikipedia, http://www.rothenburg-unterm-hakenkr...alsozialismus/