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**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Ludwig View Post

OK, here we go:

Fake

**Dansson** · 02-26-2016, 06:36 AM

As good as impossible to aquire a signed document by Dirlewanger or anything Dirlewanger related...

Sadly much Dirlewanger stuff has been destroyed after the war and during the war.

Guess the Dirlewanger uniform was not something you wanted to surrender in

**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 06:44 AM

Dirlewanger signatures would be rare the same way a Peiper signature is way rarer than a Sepp Dietrich one. As divisions commander Dietrichs signature would be on iron Cross documents for a whole division... Peipers limited to the Panzerkampfabz. etc for a regiment.

As far as I know, there is no way Dirlewanger as Colonel equiv ever awarded an Iron Cross.

The fakers need some infantry assault badge document blanks...

**Ludwig** · 02-26-2016, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by Chris Boonzaier View Post

Dirlewanger signatures would be rare the same way a Peiper signature is way rarer than a Sepp Dietrich one. As divisions commander Dietrichs signature would be on iron Cross documents for a whole division... Peipers limited to the Panzerkampfabz. etc for a regiment.

As far as I know, there is no way Dirlewanger as Colonel equiv ever awarded an Iron Cross.

The fakers need some infantry assault badge document blanks...

Dirlewanger was Divisions-Kommandeur, and that gave him authorization.

**Dansson** · 02-26-2016, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Chris Boonzaier View Post

Dirlewanger signatures would be rare the same way a Peiper signature is way rarer than a Sepp Dietrich one. As divisions commander Dietrichs signature would be on iron Cross documents for a whole division... Peipers limited to the Panzerkampfabz. etc for a regiment.

As far as I know, there is no way Dirlewanger as Colonel equiv ever awarded an Iron Cross.

The fakers need some infantry assault badge document blanks...

I am not a paperitem collector (if it isn't in my interest zone), but I have put some time to read and study pictures of original dirlwanger unit papers I have seen and considered good by others. I have noticed that the fakers use different stamp than what is on the originals and on the originals, the very same stamp can be seen on all that are signed By Dirlewanger.

I can be wrong as I know nothing from paperitems basicly, but something I noticed (mainly on ISA docs actually).

But at the end of the war he was a Oberführer that was equivalent to a brigadier general according Wikipedia, maybe he was liscenced to sign docs?
I quote from wikipedia now "On 14 February 1945, the brigade was redesignated as the 36. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS", basicly he was a divisional commander?

Best regards,
Daniel

**Ludwig** · 02-26-2016, 07:08 AM

I repeat: divisional commanders could award ICs.

**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Ludwig View Post

I repeat: divisional commanders could award ICs.

Not correct, it was not a full division and no colonel could award an EK

**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by Chris Boonzaier View Post

Not correct, it was not a full division and no colonel could award an EK

Sorry, I meant not like a "real" division... but still...

I am open to correction, but I would not buy this...

**Ludwig** · 02-26-2016, 07:34 AM

You don´t have to.

**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Chris Boonzaier View Post

Sorry, I meant not like a "real" division... but still...

I am open to correction, but I would not buy this...

I may have to eat some crow, looking a bit closer it does not look as bad as I thought. There are some points that look not so bad.

**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Dansson View Post

But at the end of the war he was a Oberführer that was equivalent to a brigadier general according Wikipedia,l

A Brigadeführer was the lowest Generals rank.

Best
Chris

**Dansson** · 02-26-2016, 07:55 AM

Maybe, but it says here it is equivalent to a Briagdier and a brigadier is equivalent to a Brigadier general.

SS- Ranks

Brigadier

Just quoting what I have read.

**Chris Boonzaier** · 02-26-2016, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Dansson View Post

Maybe, but it says here it is equivalent to a Briagdier and a brigadier is equivalent to a Brigadier general.

SS- Ranks

Brigadier

Just quoting what I have read.

Hi,

Oberführer is similar to a British Brigadier, but in German Ranks it is not a General Rank. More like senior Colonel.

You are either a General, or you are not... old Oskar was not,

If he had been Brigadeführer he would have been the equiv of a US Brigadier gen.

**Dansson** · 02-26-2016, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Chris Boonzaier View Post

Hi,

Oberführer is similar to a British Brigadier, but in German Ranks it is not a General Rank. More like senior Colonel.

You are either a General, or you are not... old Oskar was not,

If he had been Brigadeführer he would have been one.

Thanks for explaining

As I am not a paperitem collector I don't know very much about the subject

**Ludwig** · 02-26-2016, 08:16 AM

That´s true! Oberführer is more of a "three star Oberst" (in fact I have seen good SS-Standartenführer collar tabs with three pips! – unofficial, but still).
But it´s a matter of command, not rank!
Dirlewanger was Kommandeur of a division – not a Führer (which is a temporary command, and would not have given him the right to award ICs.
Even if the 36.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS was not a full division – when talking about the number of men! (not many German division were by that time!), it was in March 1945 a division on the paper.

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