Ritterkreuz Urkunde

[Frances B]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum, and to forums generally so apologies in advance if i completely fail to put this in the right section/format. I was prompted to come here in researching a document of my late fathers. Hopefully attached below is a dropbox link for it.

My dad was ex army obtained this from a British Army Museum around 20 years ago when they were having a clear out. Das Ritterkreuz Des Eisernen Kreuzes Urkunde on vellum in the original tooled leather cover, chased in gold (front, edges and inner 3 lines) with the name 'Frieda Thiersch' on the bottom centre of the inner cover. Inside, the vellum has some damage to the left hand side which i think are from museum stickers and the lettering is by hand as it is very slightly raised, more so on the Gold. The date of award matches the date for Wilhelm Crisolli's award, given all that and a little bit of expert opinion i believe it's a genuine one.

I'd appreciate any extra information on it as it's an interest we shared, but it's also something we are looking to sell so would be interested in your opinions on value and really appreciate any help you could give me as to the best place to do so.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5rkynywye...HrlaxPKna?dl=0

[Hank C.]

Well, if it's real, it's well worth probably over $5K. I'm not up on the highly-debatable worth of RK urkunden, but from the pix you've posted there's a good chance it is.

Not sure if you're up on German, but here's one link to the man:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...lliWilhelm.htm

Or here in English:
http://www.geocities.ws/orion47.geo/...I_WILHELM.html

best (and wow!)
Hank

[hucks216]

The current market price for a formal RK citation is between £8-9,000.

[Frances B]

Thanks for for your help, I'm not 100% that it is genuine but so far things seem to fit and it makes sense as an ex museum piece.

Is there a sensible place to sell it? I'd rather it gets to someone who'd really appreciate it since its got some sentimental value (weirdly! but it's an interest my dad and i shared and i'm still reeling that we're not going to be sharing it past my late 20s) but isn't something my mum and i have room for after downsizing.

[chen]

Thanks for for your help, I'm not 100% that it is genuine but so far things seem to fit and it makes sense as an ex museum piece.

Is there a sensible place to sell it? I'd rather it gets to someone who'd really appreciate it since its got some sentimental value (weirdly! but it's an interest my dad and i shared and i'm still reeling that we're not going to be sharing it past my late 20s) but isn't something my mum and i have room for after downsizing.

Why you say it may not be genuine or ex-museum piece? It looks Ok to me from the photos.
I suggest you try to find out more information about Crissoli as perhaps translate that German description.(Get a McAfee warning from that English site so do not want to open to read). The history of Crissoli will reflect the value of this document, eg, how comes he was murdered in Itatly?
You can post in WAF e-stand to sell directly to collectors. If no buy,then you can consider to sell to dealers or put in auction house, but it involves commission.

[juoneen]

What would you say the material is like that the mappes writing is on? did your dad get a bill of sale for the document when he purchased it?
.....by the way, to only have two posts and then want to sell such an item always draws suspicion, so I think it needs to be authenticated in hand by an expert before any sales are completed, just to be sure , but then again you may get more on the bottom line to run it on a Big name higher profile military auction That has been in the business for more than ten years and has the largest audience.

One thing I noticed from the photos is there are no signs it was worked on by students who did most of the tracing for these documents....and with no felts , it seems it would have lost some of the gold on the name to the other side ....so then again it may not be original ...and the reason why I would suggest it be authenticated prior to offering it. They have been faking these for decades , so whom ever pounces should do so cautiously and take an expert along if it is NOT authenticated....so with that advice , Best of luck . ( reason for my comments is I have one, and didn't notice the signs mine have on yours in your photos.)

[InfanterieSammler]

Thank you for sharing a nice original example.

Regards,
John

[Simon O.]

Which museum if i may ask? If it that's where it came from, they will be able to provide provenance. If it came from a regimental museum, even if it no longer exists it will be traceable.

[nick-j]

Nice original Mappe, a bit of damage but an interesting character, a pantograph signature, research him as it may make a difference to the price but I'm with Hucks at £8-9000. There are a lot (relative) of mappes offered for sale with the interesting person, rare branch of service, notorious winner always selling for more and quicker.
Good luck