Cholm Shield Document lot of a soldier of Jagdkommando 8

[LRRPS]

As i mentioned earlier, Jagdkommando 8 (as with the other numbered jagdkommandos) was a Heer unit. One of the Germans first ski units to be created in early 1942, which recruited mostly from mountain units naturally enough.

You're mixing Jagd-Kommando 8 and Jagd-Bataillon 8 here, but both where Heer units. The first one was drawn from Wehrkreis XVIII, and first assigned to 281. Sicherungs-Division. This division was commanded by Scherer.
Jagd-Kommando 8 disbanded in early summer 1942. The personel from 4. Kompanie was used to form 1. Kp. / Jagd-Battailon 8, rest of the unit went to 218. Sicherungs-Division.

[Simon O.]

You're mixing Jagd-Kommando 8 and Jagd-Bataillon 8 here, but both where Heer units. The first one was drawn from Wehrkreis XVIII, and first assigned to 281. Sicherungs-Division. This division was commanded by Scherer.
Jagd-Kommando 8 disbanded in early summer 1942. The personel from 4. Kompanie was used to form 1. Kp. / Jagd-Battailon 8, rest of the unit went to 218. Sicherungs-Division.

Nope, not mixing them up at all, as you point out, part of it was later used to form Jagd Btl.8

[JUNGCO]

Fabri,
I can't do it but apparently you've missed the discussions on this forum about forgeries.
Jeff

[LRRPS]

Nope, not mixing them up at all, as you point out, part of it was later used to form Jagd Btl.8

My bad, sorry. Anyway, Jagd-Kommand 8 was at Cholm, and it's members where entitled to the Cholm-shield.

[Edward]

QUOTE=Andrea90;6975330]Are you sure that certificate is 100% fake? A part from the rank do you have any doubts on it?

I've compared the signature of Scherer and it seems to correspond 101%.

As for SS rank and Heer unit, I've seen other documents of Heer with SS stamps. I've seen grouping of one soldier who during years passed from Heer to SS and also the contrary….[/QUOTE]

Yes, some personnel on the Eastern Front did find themselves attached temporarily to a combat unit of a different branch of service in an emergency situation such as an enemy breakthrough, partisan activity ect... Was this the case with the Cholmschild urkunde? Hard to say from just the doc only. As for the signature and style of lettering those can be copied, and the paper folded and aged ect... like everything else which has surfaced over the years with various other TR award docs to be added into konvoluts. To start, try to research and verify that any personnel of the Waffen SS were in the pocket, and if any were taken on the strength of Jadg-Kommando 8.

[Simon O.]

QUOTE=Andrea90;6975330]Are you sure that certificate is 100% fake? A part from the rank do you have any doubts on it?

I've compared the signature of Scherer and it seems to correspond 101%.

As for SS rank and Heer unit, I've seen other documents of Heer with SS stamps. I've seen grouping of one soldier who during years passed from Heer to SS and also the contrary….

Yes, some personnel on the Eastern Front did find themselves attached temporarily to a combat unit of a different branch of service in an emergency situation such as an enemy breakthrough, partisan activity ect... Was this the case with the Cholmschild urkunde? Hard to say from just the doc only. As for the signature and style of lettering those can be copied, and the paper folded and aged ect... like everything else which has surfaced over the years with various other TR award docs to be added into konvoluts. To start, try to research and verify that any personnel of the Waffen SS were in the pocket, and if any were taken on the strength of Jadg-Kommando 8.[/QUOTE]
You didn't read what I wrote or look at the death notice did you?

[Edward]

No, as my computer could not enlarge the pic of the the newspaper clippings to a readable size.

[Andrea90]

Yes, some personnel on the Eastern Front did find themselves attached temporarily to a combat unit of a different branch of service in an emergency situation such as an enemy breakthrough, partisan activity ect... Was this the case with the Cholmschild urkunde? Hard to say from just the doc only. As for the signature and style of lettering those can be copied, and the paper folded and aged ect... like everything else which has surfaced over the years with various other TR award docs to be added into konvoluts. To start, try to research and verify that any personnel of the Waffen SS were in the pocket, and if any were taken on the strength of Jadg-Kommando 8.

You didn't read what I wrote or look at the death notice did you?[/QUOTE]

I've seen personally one lot of documents where soldier was previously one NCO in the SS and at the end of the war was one officer in the Heer. But is non referred to this...

Do you think that is possible to copy at 100% one signature?

[Andrea90]

No, as my computer could not enlarge the pic of the the newspaper clippings to a readable size.

I will post a larger image of the death notice.

[Andrea90]

You didn't read what I wrote or look at the death notice did you?

I've seen personally one lot of documents where soldier was previously one NCO in the SS and at the end of the war was one officer in the Heer. But is non referred to this...

Do you think that is possible to copy at 100% one signature?[/QUOTE]

On the death notice anyway is written the SS rank, do you think that is referred to an allgemeine SS rank? I did not understand very well what you wrote..

[Simon O.]

I'll try again and explain it.

The death notice comes from his family, where they use his allgemeine SS rank and 'pg' before his name as he was also a party member.

His membership of the allgemeine SS is confirmed further down the notice (bottom arrow)

the top arrow confirms that he was an Oberjäger (a GJ unteroffizier) in a Gebirgsjäger Regiment, which is where he came from prior to the establishment of jagdkommando 8

Furthermore. As far as i can tell, the unit never had a 5th company.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ommando8-R.htm


and lastly, look at the differences in writing between the Jagdkommando 8 example i linked to and the one posted here.

[LRRPS]

Furthermore. As far as i can tell, the unit never had a 5th company.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ommando8-R.htm

Agree.
According to Georg Gunter, Jagdkommando 8 initially had 3 Kompanien. A fourth was added during late spring / early summer 1942. When the Jagdkommandos where transformed into Jagd-Battailone in Arys summer 1942, each unit received a 5. Panzerjäger-kompanie.
While I have found no written proof, I believe all of the Jagdkommandos where renamed to Jäger-Battailone when they received the 5th. Kp.

[LRRPS]

Seems like I was wrong earlier, Jagd-Kommando 8 had a 5. Kompanie:
Knights Cross was awarded to Gerhard Werner 23.02.1942 als Oberleutnant und Chef 5./Jagdkommando 8 / Kampfgruppe Scherer / CHOLM

[Jeremy]

another

I meant to post it here... another one I had an image of...

[Simon O.]

Seems like I was wrong earlier, Jagd-Kommando 8 had a 5. Kompanie:
Knights Cross was awarded to Gerhard Werner 23.02.1942 als Oberleutnant und Chef 5./Jagdkommando 8 / Kampfgruppe Scherer / CHOLM

That's interesting, but it means there's a discrepancy in one or both secondary sources, which has then been repeated. Not unknown. Would need to go to primary sources to verify what's going on.