Photo 9th Panzer Division (battle of Kursk)

[MG-Freak]

Hi Guys,

I got this photo that I wanna share with you. The halftrack in front has the Battle of Kursk insignia painted on the back. And a 9, which indicates that it was part of the 9th Panzer Division. This is correct, right?
On the back of the SPG you can also see the insignia.
Hope you like it.

[Simon O.]

4 Pz.Div.

the 9 could refer to the 9 Armee

[MG-Freak]

Thnx for the comment Simon. At first I thought that too, but I searched the net and found this information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Pan...28Wehrmacht%29

But I think 9th Armee is more logical

[Simon O.]

The downwards pointing arrow is the symbol of the 4 PD for the period. The division was also under the 9th army around the time.

[Lennard]

9th

Hi,

In most army panzer divisions there were two Panzer Grenadier Regiments, both had a 9th Kompanie, which was Self-Propelled 15cm Artillery, exactly like the SdKfz 138/1 that is immediately in from of the Sdkfz 251 halftrack.

This is most likely what the "9" means.


cheers lennard

[Akira Takiguchi]

Lennard, I believe your analysis is correct but this raises me a question whether the arrow was ACTUALLY implemented as a 4. Panzer Divison symbol ( as Schmitz / Thies says according to the period order ). Combination of Kompanie number and divisional symbol is kind of strange...

[Simon O.]

I agree Akira and have been thinking about it as a komp. Number without the means of identifying which doesn't make sense, which is why I thought of the army as I understand the division was attached directly to the army for a period rather than a korps . One possibility however is the use of colours, eg. White for one regiment, green for the other.

[Lennard]

9th

Hi,

I agree with you both that a Kompanie number with this kind of sign is very odd, but the vehicle type shown, the siG 15cm SdKfz 138/1, was almost exclusively used by the Sfl SiG kp of Panzer Granadier Regiments, and for the Heer Pz Divs that is usually the 9th Kp.

Thats all I can really say, maybe there is another answer, The "arrow" sign is new to me, and I do not know for what unit it is for, or what it is meant to represent.

cheers lennard

[MG-Freak]

Looking at the back, I think you're right Lennard

[Lennard]

9th Kp

Hello MG-F,

Thanks for the extra written detals, and to see that the photo is actually dated October 1943.

For your interest, attached is the Gliederung of the 9th Pz Division for June 1944, this is the nearest 9th Pz Div Gliederung I could find too the photos date, and you can see that both Pz Grenadier Regiments have a 9th Kp that were mobile siG guns.

Although this Gliederung is much later than the October photo, and the 9th Pz Div is being rebuilt in France, nevertheless the same kompanie layout is still valid.

cheers lennard

[Alanmccoubrey]

That arrow is definitely the Kursk insignia of 4 PD and the 9 does indeed refer to the Infantry Gun Company as has been said.

[Lennard]

4 Pz Div

Hi,

Here is the Gliederung for the 4 Pz Div for 1/10/43, almost the same date as the photo.

cheers lennard