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**Ian Jewison** · 08-25-2002, 12:03 PM

Schiff 5 was the Hilfskreuzer "Hansa". From what I can see it did not enter service as Hansa until 1943 and then it was not in combat!
Towards the end of 1942 was ain Rotterdam being fitted out as a Hilfskreuzer after being a Zielschiff-25 with 27 U-Fl.
First Kapitän I have is from April 1943......I need to check the Umbau Chef!

/Ian

**Rick Research** · 08-25-2002, 12:08 PM

According to Günther Steinweg's 1954 "Die Deutsche Handelsflotte im Zweiten Weltkrieg," "Ship No. 5" was "Hansa," ex-"Glengarry," 9,138 BRT, taken as prize in Copenhagen harbor during the 9 April 1940 invasion, BUT: "The ship never went into action and was placed in service as a training ship (Ausbildungsschiff) in 1944."

Signature--

!?

**Ian Jewison** · 08-25-2002, 12:30 PM

Are you sure that is the correct FP Nr?

/Ian

**polux** · 08-25-2002, 02:27 PM

Identification of an auxiliary cruiser

Here is an increase of the signature and of the stamp.

The first 4 figures are clearly visible M23 47.

Polux

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Post Tenebras Lux

**jslavick** · 08-26-2002, 10:09 AM

Hello Gentlemen:

Wow! This document is a great piece of history! This one is certainly open to a lot of speculation....I am "shooting from the hip" on this one, as it would require a whole lot of research and digging to really confirm.

Hansa was designated as a proposed HSK in Feb 1942 which is shortly after the award document's date of 11 March 1942. So, feasibly, the document could be from the Hansa. However, a Commanding Officer wasn't designated for Hansa until April 1943 (KzS Hans Henigst) and the ship never completed conversion to an auxiliary cruiser.

Perhaps the award is from previous service while Otto Lucks served aboard the ship while she was named Meersburg (assigned to the 27th Flotilla, Gotenhafen, as a U-boat training/target ship) and by default was assigned Ship-5's Feldpost number because the award was approved after the ship was slated for conversion to become a HSK.

The signature has me at a loss too. I don't recognize the signature and I am really weak at trying to decypher handwriting.

I would certainly like to hear other's views on my speculation and continue the discussion.

Joe

**Ian Jewison** · 08-26-2002, 10:46 AM

Hi Joe,
I think it could have been award issued when the ship it was used as Zielschiff-25, 27 U-Fl. but the dates is for when it was in dry dock being fitted as HSK!
Also who is that signature...Horst Gerlach? He was commander of HSK 6 "Stier" but that sank 27.9.1942.....I have not record of what he did until 1943......possible?
Unfortunately Joe you date is wrong...European 3 November 1942!

/Ian

**jslavick** · 08-26-2002, 10:58 AM

Yikes!

I do that mistake with the dates all the time! Thanks! I know better, but still I do this Knuckle-Head mistake a lot!

I will have my friend look at the signature tonight to see if he can read it.

Thanks for the correction!

Joe

**Rick Research** · 08-26-2002, 11:16 AM

Hmmm, that COULD be "Gerlach!" (maybe he went to the same grammar school as General Berthold!

) The two weird dots at the end could be a distinctive signature fluorish, if anybody can find a match.

**polux** · 08-26-2002, 11:40 AM

Identification of an auxiliary cruiser

Dearly Sirs,

The diploma EK 2 Kl. was accompanied with the diploma Hilfskreuzerabzeichen.

No identification of the boat, regrettably illegible stamp, but always the same signature of the Kapitän !!

Thank you to Joe, Ian and Rick for your comments.

Polux
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Post Tenebras Lux

**jslavick** · 08-26-2002, 12:29 PM

WOW!!!!!!!!

Now that is what I'm TALKIN' about!

I have crew listings at home. I should be able to find Lucks on something. Beautiful document!

I will have a friend look at the signature.

**Walter Sp** · 08-26-2002, 01:25 PM

signature

Hey Rick,

I think your tip is the right one. The signature has to be Gerlach. Here are my reasons for this:

1. Horst Gerlach, * 11.8.1900 Erfurt was promoted in April 1942 to Kapitän z.S. He was in November 1942 Commandant of the HSK 'Stier' (Ship 23)

2. The HSK 'Stier' destroyed the "Stephen Hopkins" an US Freighter on the 27.9.1942, was also heavily damaged and sunk too. The Crewmembers were rescued from another German Ship (Blockage runner Tannenfels) and return safely to the harbour of Royan at the 2.11.1942.

3. Compare the issue date from the HSK-badge an the iron cross. Both were dated 3.11.1942. So Lucks got the EKII and the HSK for sinking the "Stephen Hopkins"

out of: Die dtsch. Kriegsmarine, Lohmann/Hildebrand 1956

to jslavick

check the crew listing of Ship 23. Maybay you will find him there
Walle

**polux** · 08-26-2002, 03:28 PM

Identification of an auxiliary cruiser

Detail of the stamp and of the signature.

Thank you for your researches and your comments.

Polux
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Post Tenebras Lux

**Rick Research** · 08-26-2002, 06:08 PM

If it was Gerlach, he had an odd career, in the Navy April 1916 to November 1919, then back August 1920 until January 1924, then out again, back in by mid-1935: LtzS ern. 18.9.18, Olt zS 1.4.22, Kaptlt zS(E), KorvKapt zS (E) 1.3.36 #1, Fregkapt zS (E) ca 1940, KaptzS 1.4.42 #7. He was with the Reichskriegsministerium at the end of the 1930s. He died between 1963 (he was then a federal accident insurance employee--rather ironic, for a "pirate"!)and 1980. His wife Hildegard was still living in 1983.

**jslavick** · 09-01-2002, 07:50 AM

Gerlach Signature

You guys were right, what a great source for discussion!

There must have been on heck-of-an awards ceremony on 3 Nov 1942 because that is also the day Gerlach received the DKG.

Joe

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Identification of an auxiliary cruiser

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