Ehrenpokal or not.......thoughts?

[stgeorge64]

Some time ago I purchased this set of documents to Oberfeldwebel Willi Kuhn with served as a Fluzegfuhrer with Kustenaufklärungsstaffel 1./306 Nordenay and subsequently 3./Kampfgruppe 806.

The award doocuments I have are as follows:

Flugzeugführerabzeichen 15-08-37
Dienstauszeichnung IV. Klasse 01-07-38
Eiserne Kreuz 2.Klasse 08-03-40
Eiserne Kreuz 1.Klasse 14-09-40
Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Silber 20-04-41
Frontflug-Spange für Transportflieger in Gold 07-07-42
Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Gold 25-09-44

Plus his Flugzeugfuhrerschein and a few other minor documents and 3 photographs.

My question revolves around the final document in the set which I have duly posted here. It mentions the award of the Ehrenpokal yet there is no Willi Kuhn mentioned on any Ehrenpokal listing that I can see.

So, as it is known that the Ehrenpokal lists are incomplete is this a case of one that hasn't been captured and listed......or it is a bogus document added to the grouping to enhance the value?

I welcome all constructive comments and criticisms and hopefully we can get to the bottom of question.

Thanks in advance with any help with this.

Regards Richard.

[Ian Jewison]

Richard,

Don't forget the Ehrenpokal was established by order 27.2.1940, however the Ehrenliste was not introduced until 1.9.1941. Additionally the Ehrenliste ceased 19.6.1944 but the Ehrenpokal was still being awarded. Officially it was to be ceased August 1944 but was still awarded after that date.

Technically they should have been awarded the Ehrenblattspage der Luftwaffe which was introduced from 5.7.1944.

Trying to find info on those Ehrenpokal award pre and post the above dates is difficult!

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Frontflug-Spange für Transportflieger in Gold 07-07-42
Frontflug-Spange für Kampfflieger in Gold 25-09-44

That seems a bit odd.......you don't normally change bars just because you have gone from Transport to Bombers......is it not with an Anhanger?
110 missions were needed for the bar in Gold with the Ehrenpokal being awarded anywhere from 110-200 missions normally.

/Ian

[stgeorge64]

Ian

Thank you for your replies, and yes I thought it more than a little strange myself. That said, I cannot find fault with either document, and post them both here accordingly.

Regards Richard.

[Lionel H.]

To be honest, I am not convinced the first doc you show is a fake. I am not absolutely convinced about the Stamp, it's right, but the style of the document matchs with the period-Style. Moreover, it has not been written by a specialist, the Award listing is not absolutely correct, that's more a good point than a reg Flag.

Lastly, I don't know when you acquired this small Group. But at the time being, such an uncomplete Group for a transport-Pilot is really hard to sell, even for a low Price. Then, adding this Doc has IMO no influence of the Price. Otherwise said : Adding this doc. to earn more money really makes no Sense. Just my Opinion. Lionel .

[chris235]

Revival here

I have just seen the full grouping, it comes with much more than was posted on here, after a quick search online this thread came up... and that document would not add or take away anything from that grouping.

As for that document relating to Feb.45 -

The document looks fine, it was after all not a member of the LW who made it!
So I would not expect any form of good writing or document skills from a Captain at the train-station guard unit of Bayreuth... And especially not in February 1945.