SS totenkopf KZ guard portrait

[Rogerd]

Please read my previous post. I would like opinions but WITH some EXPLENATION why this one is not period.

My dad is a photografer and reproduced lots of photo's the old way in the dark room. He said this is not a recent reproduction. He has a good knowledge of the types of paper and way of making a picture.

If it is repro, please tell me how you see it. Saying it is a fake because its a known pic, that is not enough to me. It ofcourse has a bigger chance to be fake but if it has been faked, real ones also exist. So explain why this is a copy. I just want to learn here.

I'll keep the pic for my KZ guard display anyway, I do not lose anything on this one. But again, I want to LEARN!!

[Fritz]

My dad is a photografer and reproduced lots of photo's the old way in the dark room. He said this is not a recent reproduction. He has a good knowledge of the types of paper and way of making a picture.

You have to realize that old and sometimes even original ww2 paper is used by fakers.

[Gran Sasso]

He's an older WWI veteran with no new medals.

What about the 1939 war merit medal (ribbon in buttonhole)? ;-)

[Rogerd]

Yes, I can believe that. Good point.

But how do you fake the inprint of the chalkpaper that is between two pages in an album? That would take years in a closed album... Not to mention the more yellow edges of the picture.

If fakers can do that, then there is no point of collecting SS pics without provenance.... (I do not collect these, just came across this one and thought it would fit next to my KZ uniform: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...nkopf+KZ+guard)

[Rogerd]

What about the 1939 war merit medal (ribbon in buttonhole)? ;-)

That is correct!!

[chrischa]

Yes, I can believe that. Good point.

But how do you fake the inprint of the chalkpaper that is between two pages in an album? That would take years in a closed album... Not to mention the more yellow edges of the picture.

If fakers can do that, then there is no point of collecting SS pics without provenance.... (I do not collect these, just came across this one and thought it would fit next to my KZ uniform: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...nkopf+KZ+guard)

Hello Brecht.

That uniform is still a stunner.

I also have seen this image around for a long time and there was a thread about it in the SS section a year or two ago. The Collectors Guild used it on one of their SS sales pages for a while.

Could the age effect simply be that the image is many years old? If you think of the SS collecting interest in the 60's and 70's (think Mollo's SS books, etc) then surely this image would have been copied back then and that is forty years ago.

Best regards,
Chris.

[Rogerd]

If it is a copy they would have had the original negatives and than I could believe it. Still doubt it.

But can someone just say me how to see this is a post war picture?
Everybody is just saying the same:
It is a known picture who has been faked, so this one must be fake to. That is really no answer to my question.....

If no difference can be seen with originals......why still paying a lot of money on collecting pics? Happy I don't collect these

[BlackWatch1]

It is possible the SS soldier/guard had a box of these made up when he had his picture taken which was common for studio portraits. Maybe he had a large family and had a fair number made up? Christmas gifts? Or perhaps he had a box or two made up, gave away some, and kept the rest. Then the photo's may been sold at an estate sale to a dealer and dispersed world-wide.

[Edward]

If it is a copy they would have had the original negatives and than I could believe it. Still doubt it.

Believe it. A large number of existing period portrait negatives have been used by fakers to make copies and pass them off as originals to auction houses, dealers, and collectors. This has been going on now for the past several decades.

[Michael73]

If it is a copy they would have had the original negatives and than I could believe it. Still doubt it.

But can someone just say me how to see this is a post war picture?
Everybody is just saying the same:
It is a known picture who has been faked, so this one must be fake to. That is really no answer to my question.....

If no difference can be seen with originals......why still paying a lot of money on collecting pics? Happy I don't collect these

Hello Brecht
We all are trying to help you here, but this: ""If no difference can be seen with originals......why still paying a lot of money on collecting pics? Happy I don't collect these ''" - is wrong attitude...

The reason you are not getting direct unswer on this forum is because people do not want to give fakers new ideas for making repros

There are fakes on original paper, there are postwar prints made from original negatives, ther are russian "archive " fakes and more and more...

Still there is superb 100% original SS photo material available from certain sources

You can start learning about this complicated subject here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=153090

Your photo is an old repro that was around for decades, sorry about that - but this is true...

Regards
Michael

[Rogerd]

Thanks Michael for the interesting link. Really helpfull!

I know a lot of people want to help on this forum, I did not want to offend someone but if I get an answer: it's fake. with no explenation, then that rises questions to me.

I do believe you when you say still a lot of good pics are out there. But I will keep it with pics who have solid provenance. Just my way to be sure....

About the picture I posted:

- In the webside in your link is stated: "The intention of making easy money turns a reprint into a fake." My picture in this thread did not 'make any money'.

- Also: "When I started my collection, about 20 years ago, there were not many fakes around and those which were on the market, could be easily detected as modern reprints of original negatives or duplicates of original photos."
chrischa said: "Could the age effect simply be that the image is many years old? If you think of the SS collecting interest in the 60's and 70's (think Mollo's SS books, etc) then surely this image would have been copied back then and that is forty years ago. "
=> older reproductions were easy to detect, I do not think mine is easy to detect... surely not when in hand!

So for my picture:
- old paper was used
- there is the print of chalkpaper who is between pages of a photo album,
comes with years of storage
- the edges are a little more yellow than the middle of the photo, comes with
age, not easy to reproduce.
- was not made to make money
- has been around the internet for some time

=> conclusion: fake?

Still in my opinion the only reason why it should be fake is that it was on the internet. It was indeed in collectors guild, that is where I remember it from. But is that enough to condemn it to a fake?
I really do not care that much, as I said I do not lose or win here in any case. I think it is just interesting how pictures are discussed and how fakes can be discovered...