Himmlers albums found?

[Tim W]

Very nice!! Would it be possible to get a good scan from your friend of the SS panzer officers group shot in the center of pick #6. I might be able to identify the men in the photo for you?


Thanks
Tim willemsen
timwil22@netzero.com

[Jeff Ashenfelter]

I will call my buddy tonight and see about getting some better shots of the stamps etc. Please understand that this process is rather frustrating for me. My buddy lives a dozen states away from me, and he has to go over to the owners house and take more pics. That is providing the owner agrees. The owner wants to sell all of this together and has little interest in any of it. I have been told that this is the crappier of the 3 albums, and that the best shots are in the other two. (The ones that we really want to see). I also don't know exactly what else he has, he never mentioned the broomhandle pistol! I will see what I can do. Jeff

[Si1964]

I have been told that this is the crappier of the 3 albums, and that the best shots are in the other two. (The ones that we really want to see). I also don't know exactly what else he has, he never mentioned the broomhandle pistol! I will see what I can do. Jeff

Jeff
It makes you wonder what those medals might be or that old tunic

[vonStubben]

Greetings to all, as this is my first posting.

My name is Chuck Stubben and I have been collecting and dealing in Third Reich militaria for over 35 years (pretty much full time), and have lived and traveled the world over in doing so. Needless to say, I have been doing this a long time.

I have a few things to say about this grouping, as I was the first to make contact with this family and see all the items first hand, having driven to South Carolina from Florida with my wife, and spent the day and night with the owners of these items.

Firstly, yes, the photographs did come from Himmler's house, and were taken while Sgt. Claude M. Fowler (DOB- 11/19/17) and other members of his unit billeted themselves in Himmler's summer home. The photographs are all original, and each of the 8 x 10's (which have almost all come loose from the pages of the album) from this particular album are authentic, including the one of Sgt. Fowler sitting on Himmler's bed and the one of his best friend in Himmler's study. The only writing found upon anything, that is in Himmler's hand, is an inscription upon the reverse of the front cover of this album (which is falling apart from improper storage), which when translated reads "Trip to the Netherlands 30 I - 5. II. 1944". It is of course written in green pencil and is in Himmler's hand. However, this is the ONLY bit of Himmler's handwriting found on any of the items. All other writing, etc., was done by his personal photographer SS Oberscharfuehrer Sepp Fritz, or Sepp's superior (each pic. has Sepp's info. stamped on the back). There are approximately 60- 8x10 photos from this album, 20- or so 4 x 3's, 5- 3 x 2's (of Fritz Klingenberg), and 9- 4 x 3's of official photos of the aftermath of Berlin bombings. The other pictures are of Himmler's vacation trip to Italy in 1937, in particular his trip to Pompei. The only intact album of this two part series is the second volume, "Italian Reise 1937". The first volume has had each of it's pictures cut out. These pictures remain glued upon the black pages of the destroyed album. Upon the reverse of one of these pages is written in Sgt. Fowlers hand, "Ruins of Pompei taken by Himmler himself (which it wasn't). These were taken from Himmler's summer home--------in the Mtns. A beautiful place." These "Italian Reise 1937" albums were made up and distributed to many high ranking officers in the SS and given to them as presents. In fact, the album now in question was also mass produced (on a limited scale) in the same fashion (according to a well known West coast dealer/collector), and also given out to many of the officers seen in this album, to name a few: Fritz Witt, Sepp Dietrich, Kurt Meyer, Max Wuensche, Hugo Krass, Karl Maria Demelhuber, etc. This lot of photographs also shows many of the Dutch SS hierarchy, etc. visited upon this particular trip by Himmler. Many of the photos have been published before, because there are published copies of some of the pictures seen in this album already out there, most likely from the other albums given out as gifts or from negatives found after the war.

Now, onto the flag. Included within this grouping is a common, standard nazi flag, minus it's bunting, which was supposedly torn down upon entry into the house. Unfortunately this can not be verified. It could be any flag.

The pistol, which is a .30 calibre broom handle mauser, may or may not have been taken from the home. There are no capture papers, etc., for it or anything else.

Unfortunately, the only items which can be clearly identified as having belonged to Himmler are the pictures. Sgt. Fowler was a prolific "battlefield collector", having brought or sent ALOT of nazi stuff home. From what I have been told he had tons of stuff, and the family claims to have more items in boxes in the garage (which I was not able to verify). SO.........who knows where these other items (ie. the flag and pistol), which are being touted as Himmler's, really came from?

There is much, much, more to this story which I am privy to, but this should be enough to get the ball rolling.

I myself have made contact with some pretty powerful collectors (clients), and no one has had any interest in these items, given the amount of money the owners believe this stuff to be worth (plus their condition). They will not part with any of it, unless they are offered the crazy money they think these items should be worth. When they first offered the items for sale they wanted $800,000.00. I have told them that realistically, they are looking at no more than $5,000.00, for what they have can not be proven as having belonged to Himmler, aside from some of the pictures. They wouldn't accept this (8 weeks ago), so I have just recently decided to wash my hands of it all. If any of you want it, it's there!, but keep in mind that only the pictures can be traced to Himmler's home.

The one that "got away", was Himmler's sword that the father took from this home. But that's another story!

Chuck Stubben

I just got off of the phone with a friend of mine who lives down south. He answered an ad for German relics that was in a local paper, what he found when he arrived at the guys house was very impressive if true.
It turns out that a relative of this guy had died and they had to settle the estate. When they searched the attic of the dead mans house they found an army footlocker. Inside of the footlocker they found a 98 mauser, a flag, a bunch of medals wrapped up in some kind of uniform, a sword, and three photo albums along with newspapers and loose photos.
Looking at the albums they remembered the guys old stories that circulated around the family about him being in Himmlers house and liberating some of his belongings.
Anyway my friend looked over the albums and he said he almost **** his pants. He said that one of the albums was of Himmler and his family in Italy on some sort of state visit to Mussolini. Many pics of famous historical sites there and of Italian dignitaries of the time. The other two albums were all military shots of famous Nazis and soldiers and SS types. A large quantity of the photos have SS stamps and many more are signed in green ink by Himmler himself. The wordings are mostly just the name of the person in the photo or some anecdotal remark.
I asked my buddy what he thought about the items and he said he thought they were authentic. He is no expert on WW2 photos but he has a good eye for 60 year old relics.
My first thought was to try to find out as much as I can about these items as this is just not my area. If anyone can corraborate any of the info that I currently have, than I may have to drive south and see for myself. All I really know right now is that the veteran was in the 36th div and was one of the first soldiers into this particular house. I have two photos of this house which is purported to be Himmlers. One pic shows the outside of the house and the other pic shows the inside of the house with a bunch of GI's sitting around a window looking at one of these albums. The GI who liberated these items is in the picture.
My friend also took more pics of some of these photos from the albums layed out on a bed, he is sending them to me in the morning. He also said that he has never seen any of these pictures in print before.
Well, what do you guys in the know think? Any information will be of help. Has anyone heard of this before, scam? Jeff

[Jeff Ashenfelter]

Chuck,
Thanks or the info, saves me a lot of trouble. Jeff

[Si1964]

Chuck

Thanks for the additional infomation very interesting.....

[George Stimson]

Chuck von

What a great first post!

[vonStubben]

Jeff,

You are very welcome.

Chuck

Chuck,
Thanks or the info, saves me a lot of trouble. Jeff

[vonStubben]

George,

Thank you for your kind words. Hopefully the information I have provided will help anyone here, who may visit this family and be properly informed. As we all know, provenance is everything, but not everything being offered can be verified as I have already stated in my "two cents worth".

All the best,

Chuck

What a great first post!

[voodoo]

Chuck,


Thanks for posting this.

Now,,,,,, you got me hanging on the sword bit. Could you elaborate

Jeff

[vonStubben]

Jeff,

It is a fact that Sgt. Fowler also liberated Himmler's personal damascus bladed SS sword from this home (his friend took another). This was Sgt. Fowler's most prized war trophy. When he returned home after the war he placed it upon the mantel and showed it off regularly. A trusted family member, who was also a lawyer, understood it's importance and value. After Sgt. Fowler died, this family member arrived one day unannounced, when the widow was alone. He asked to borrow the sword, as someone was in town who could evaluate it. Trusting him she agreed and gave him the sword. Later that day he returned with a check. He said that he had been offered too much money not to let it go. The amount of the personal check he gave her is unknown, but needless to say it was a pitance of what it had sold for. She was angry and upset, but did nothing because of who the family member was. It was some time before anyone else knew about it, and by then it was too late. After all he was a "trusted member" of the family, and a respected lawyer, too.

The sword almost immediately wound up being sold to it's present owner, by the individual who bought it from the lawyer.

This sword, as I have told the family, is where the money was in all of this, not in the pictures, and was the most valuable item of all.

As a side note, approximately three to six months later the lawyer who conned the widow, and sold the sword,......................died! At least this is what the family has told me.

Chuck

Chuck,


Thanks for posting this.

Now,,,,,, you got me hanging on the sword bit. Could you elaborate

Jeff

[BRET VAN SANT]

Jeff, hi

If you can find out.......... ask your friend if the postcard sized images are numbered on the reverse. The ones I own of HH have consecutive numbers on the reverse in pencil and look to be numbered in the order taken. Numbered by the developer I have aklways thought???? But not really a biggie I guess. just wondered if they were. Anyway thanks for the advanced look. my best, Bret

[Jason G]

Chuck: The story alone here is great! Thanks for sharing it. Too bad the family is struck with "Roadshow-itis". Damn shame about the sword, too. Ah, well. Love the broomhandle!
Jason G

[VtwinVince]

Fascinating story and what a find. In 1983 I was advertising in a local paper, looking for German war relics, and got a call from a woman who's father had been an intelligence officer in occupied Germany. He had collected many items, which he had sent back and which filled a large trunk. I tried to remain calm and asked if I could see the items, but the woman would not give me her name. About a year later, while I was living in Europe, I heard on the radio that this very hoarde had come up for auction. One of the great "lost opportunities". BTW my uncle, a Luftwaffe officer, was in hospital at Tegernsee at wars' end, and many of his personal belongings were looted by US troops.

[Brian S]

Welcome to the Forum my friend.

Nice avatar!