Unknown fellas

[Explorer]

Who would this guys be, any ideas?

[W Petz]

WW1 Italian Alpini Soldiers two of which are wearing captured Austrian helmets.

World War I[edit]


Celestino Ellero, World War I . He wears the 1st issue Italian Gas mask container strapped over his right shoulder. ca. 1916.



Italian positions on Cinque Torri summit today.



Col di Lana after the detonation of the Italian mine.


During World War I the 26 peacetime Alpini battalions were increased by 62 battalions and saw heavy combat all over the alpine arch. During the war years the Alpini regiments consisted of the following battalions (the pre-war raised battalions are in bold; their first line reserve battalions, named after valleys (in Italian: Val or Valle) and their second line reserve battalions, named after mountains (in Italian: Monte) drawn from the same recruiting areas as the original battalions follow below the pre-war battalions):
<TABLE class="wikitable sortable"><TBODY><TR class=hintergrundfarbe6><TH class=unsortable>Regiment</TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH><TH></TH></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>1st Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Ceva
Val Tanaro
Monte Mercantur</TD><TD>Pieve di Teco
Val Arroscia
Monte Saccarello</TD><TD>Mondovì
Val d'Ellero
Monte Clapier</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>2nd Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Borgo San Dalmazzo
Val Stura
Monte Argentera
Cuneo</TD><TD>Dronero
Val Maira
Bicocca</TD><TD>Saluzzo
Val Varaita
Monviso</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>3rd Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Pinerolo
Val Pellice
Monte Granero</TD><TD>Fenestrelle
Val Chisone
Monte Albergian
Courmayeur</TD><TD>Exilles
Val Dora
Monte Assietta</TD><TD>Susa
Val Cenischia
Moncenisio</TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>4th Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Ivrea
Val d'Orco
Monte Levanna
Pallanza</TD><TD>Aosta
Val Baltea
Monte Cervino</TD><TD>Intra
Val Toce
Monte Rosa</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>5th Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Morbegno
Val d'Intelvi
Monte Spluga
Monte Mandrone</TD><TD>Tirano
Valtellina
Stelvio
Tonale</TD><TD>Edolo
Val Camonica
Monte Adamello
Monte Ortler</TD><TD>Vestone
Val Chiese
Monte Suello
Monte Cavento</TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>6th Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Verona
Val d'Adige
Monte Baldo</TD><TD>Vicenza
Val Leogra
Monte Berico
Monte Pasubio</TD><TD>Bassano
Val Brenta
Sette Comuni</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>7th Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Feltre
Val Cismon
Monte Pavione</TD><TD>Pieve di Cadore
Val Piave
Monte Antelao</TD><TD>Belluno
Val Cordevole
Monte Pelmo
Monte Marmolada</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD><CENTER>8th Alpini</CENTER></TD><TD>Gemona
Val Tagliamento
Monte Arvenis</TD><TD>Tolmezzo
Val Fella
Monte Canin</TD><TD>Cividale
Val Natisone
Monte Matajur
Monte Nero</TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Most of the above battalions were regular Alpini battalions, while some were units raised for special tasks: in example the Monte Marmolada battalion was a Skiing battalion tasked with combat on the Marmolada glacier.
The Alpini battalions were divided in 233 companies of 100 to 150 men each. The Alpini regiments were never sent into battle as a whole, instead single companies and battalions were given specific passes, summits or ridges to guard and defend on their own.
The war has become known as the "War in snow and ice", as most of the 600 km frontline ran through the highest mountains and glaciers of the Alps. 12 meters (40 feet) of snow were a usual occurrence during the winter of 1915/16 and thousands of soldiers died in avalanches. The remains of these soldiers are still being uncovered today. The Alpini, as well as their Austrian counterparts: Kaiserschützen, Standschützen and Landeschützen occupied every hill and mountain top around the whole year. Huge underground bases were drilled and blown into the mountainsides and even deep into the ice of glaciers such as the Marmolada. Guns were dragged by hundreds of troops on mountains up to 3,890 m (12,760 feet) high. Roads, cable cars, mountain railroads and walkways were built up, through and along the steepest of cliffs. Many of these walkways and roads are still visible today, and many are maintained as Via Ferrata for climbing enthusiasts. In addition, along the former frontline it is still possible to see what is left of hundreds of kilometers of barbed wire.
In this kind of warfare, whoever occupied the higher ground first was almost impossible to dislodge, so both sides turned to drilling tunnels under mountain peaks, filling them up with explosives and then detonating the whole mountain to pieces, including its defenders: i.e. Col di Lana, Monte Pasubio, Lagazuoi, etc.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-2>[2]</SUP>
Climbing and skiing became essential skills for the troops of both sides and soon Ski Battalions and special climbing units were formed. It was during these years that the Alpini, their spirit and their mules became famous, although at the cost of over 12,000 casualties out of a total of 40,000 mobilized Alpinis.
Many of the famous Alpini songs originated during this time and reflect upon the hardships of the "War in Snow and Ice".

[Explorer]

Thank you! Do you know what's the huge award the second guy from the right has on his breast pocket? Also what are the insignia they wear on the sleeve?

[W Petz]

Sorry...I can't help you on specific awards and sleeve insignia. There are more qualified members on WAF who can answer those questions. I'm sure some of them will help you out.

Thank you! Do you know what's the huge award the second guy from the right has on his breast pocket? Also what are the insignia they wear on the sleeve?

[chrischa]

W Petz, that is a helpful reply!

I'm impressed.

Chris.

[Br. James]

Hi Explorer,

I may be way off base here, but the badge worn on the left sleeve by at least two of the men in your photo appears to me to be the insignia of Freikorps Epp, the Bavarian militia unit headed by German General Franz Ritter von Epp after WWI. The badge worn by Freikorps Epp was a round brass disc bearing the head of a roaring lion in left profile, mounted onto a diamond-shaped cloth in black and worn on the left uniform sleeve above the elbow. Could these men be from Freikorps Epp...??

Br. James

[Explorer]

Hello guys and thank you for all the info. I appreciate your input. It's interesting that when I saw the photo it reminded me of all the freikorps units after ww1 in Germany. Perhaps you are right I just don't know but that's why I bought it in the first place. Someone on a different forum says they might be Italian partigiani.

I have some research to do.

[Gerdan]

The Freikorps von Epp bade is round and the 2 badges for me seem to be oval.

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=h...9QEwAg&dur=864

Gerdan

[Explorer]

Did freikorps units wear hats? Collar tabs look like Italian or Austrian??

[BergführerKiser]

Servus Explorer,

Outstanding photograph! These guys are 'Gebirglers' (mountain dwellers) of some sort from Austria IMHO. The collar insignia with Edelweiss...usually associated with Alpenjägers, wind jackets, helmets, Tyrolean hats, pickaxe and shovel are Austrian. The two helmeted fellows and the guy in between sport mountain boots and climbing knickers.

I would say that these Gebirglers are either from a mountain rescue service or maybe Tyrolean freedom fighters (Freikorps?)....South Tyrol was given to Italy after WWI. Can you get a better close-up scan of the sleeve insignia and the one breast badge? I didn't find anything similar in Rolf Urrisk's book "Die Uniformen des österreichischen Bundesheeres 1918-1938."

Berg Heil und Horrido!

Patrick

[Mil-Archive]

Hi Explorer,

I may be way off base here, but the badge worn on the left sleeve by at least two of the men in your photo appears to me to be the insignia of Freikorps Epp, the Bavarian militia unit headed by German General Franz Ritter von Epp after WWI. The badge worn by Freikorps Epp was a round brass disc bearing the head of a roaring lion in left profile, mounted onto a diamond-shaped cloth in black and worn on the left uniform sleeve above the elbow. Could these men be from Freikorps Epp...??

Br. James

I don't think they are the Epp Freikorps badge, here is a closeup of one from this site here :

http://www.historisches-lexikon-baye.../artikel_44494




If you zoom in on the group picture above the badge is in a similar backing but has a different design in my opinion. Hope the picture owner doesn't mind me posting this closeup for illustration purposes :

[W Petz]

Now I'm not quite sure I provided a helpful reply as it appears that this group are Austrians and not Italians.

Here is a link to the Austrian Heimwehr

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimwehr

There is a photo of Austrian Heimwehr troops after WW1 and their uniforms look exactly like the uniforms in the photo that started this thread.

Bill

W Petz, that is a helpful reply!

I'm impressed.

Chris.

[Explorer]

So it's Heimwehr...

Here are some better close-ups...

[Explorer]

I think I finally have an answer. They're supposedly a Steirischer Heimwehr with a Steirischer panther on a sleeve insignia and if you look closely there's something on the Berndorf helmet as well, most probably also a panther. No clue about the pocket order yet.