Show your TDB related documents

[Lionel H.]

Hi Marc. I have just realised that your Document is dated once "Oct.6th 1944" and once "Nov.6th 1944". I hope you have in the Group another Element (SB ??) with a confirmed date, otherwise it will be difficult to be sure which date has to be researched through to determine the exact Place where this Action took place. KInd regards. Lionel.

[walter1010de]

Hi Marc. I have just realised that your Document is dated once "Oct.6th 1944" and once "Nov.6th 1944". I hope you have in the Group another Element (SB ??) with a confirmed date, otherwise it will be difficult to be sure which date has to be researched through to determine the exact Place where this Action took place. KInd regards. Lionel.

Lionel,

he got the IC 1 on 8 Nov 1944. In his SB there is also entered the 6 Nov 1944 for the TDB. I suppose that both awards are related to each other...

I believe the 6 Oct 1944 on the "Bataillonsbefehl" is a typo.

[Tom B]

Here I have another TDB - "Award-Document", which is part of a group to a Feldwebel of (Volks-) Grenadier - Regiment 225. The soldier was before attached to Grenadier-Regiment 897 and managed (due to a wound he received) to escape - just to be thrown into another nightmare...
Most interesting ist that a 2nd Lieutenant (MC) signed the document as the "Chief of Staff" of the Battalion... Unusual.
Must have been a rough time in fall 1944 in France for the 16. Volks-Grenadier-Division (16. Infanterie - Division).

Will show the whole group in few days. Have to do some research to it before.

This one I LIKE !!!! Tom

[PanzerElite]

hello Marc,

in your first TDB grouping, the TDB and CCC were signed by Rodolf Veiel in Sep.1944, but he was relieved of command because of complicity in the July 20 Conspiracy to assassinate Adolf Hitler, so is it possible to sign the documents again? hope somebody will give me help.thanks!

J.

[Dete]

Hi,

just found this thread. Here a small contribution from my collection.
Best regards
Detlev

[Dete]

2.

[Lionel H.]

Hi Dete. The one from Fabritius is a perfect original IMO, part of a larger Grouping I have still seen on the Internet.

The second one is a problem for me. Paper § Text are very trustworth. But I really hate the signature from this Oblt, and the Stamp, which seems to correspond to the above mentioned unit, is not doubtless.

Problem is, I have no Documentation about this Unit, probably somebody on the Forum could help.

For this Time, I have no definitive Opinion about this one. But nevertheless, I would not spend money for it because I am not 100% convinced.

I would be glad to change my Opinion, in one direction or the Other. As this Kind of Document rarely "commes alone", the Question is : "Have you more about this Soldier ?". Lionel.

[Edward L. Hsiao]

For The Gold Tank Destruction Badge

Gentlemen,

I don't suppose you could find any documents that had to do with a soldier that won the Tank Destruction Badge In Gold. Of course you know that after five kills against enemy tanks a soldier gets the gold one.

Sincerely,

Edward L. Hsiao

[pep]

what do you think about this one?? ... sorry but can't let bigger photo.
my main doubt is the signature of the regimental commander. does not seem to fit his name in late 44.
I think would pass on .... seems not trustable.

[Brian R]

I'd skip that one, pep.

[pep]

yeah!! that was my though ...

[Lionel H.]

Pilgersdorffer is a well known fake, including also his SB, which appears on the Market each time that his new Owner discover the Truth..... This could be a new Game among Paper collectors : "Where is now the Pilgersdorffer SB ??"

[Archi]

Hi all !

Thanks for showing all these interesting documents.

I just noticed this question by Panzerelite :

hello Marc,
in your first TDB grouping, the TDB and CCC were signed by Rodolf Veiel in Sep.1944,
but he was relieved of command because of complicity in the July 20 Conspiracy
to assassinate Adolf Hitler, so is it possible to sign the documents again?
hope somebody will give me help.thanks!

As this thread is also about correct or fake, it maybe worth to clear this matter.
One finds the above statement (Veiel beeing relieved because of 20. July) in almost
every bio on him on the internet, probably, because it is stated by Keilig, but I think it is wrong.

Gen. d. Pz.Truppen Rudolf Veiel held his command in WK V from 1.9.1943 until 15.4.1945,
when he was replaced by Gen. d. Art. Maximilian Felzmann.

After the war, Gen. Veiel wrote a report for the Historical Study group (FMS B-193), where he
reports all the actions of WK V in great detail until April 45, which would not possible if he
wasn't in place (and these reports were reviewed by several others).

In addition, in a book by Peter Hoffmann, "Widerstand, Staatsstreich, Attentat", two very close
subordinates (Chef d. Stabes Oberst Adam and the IIb, Oberst von Tümpling) were questioned
on the very fact (change in command) and they deny that anything like that happened (p. 842).

So, no reason to question any of the docs based on a signature by General Veiel in that timeframe.

Cheers,

Archi

[PanzerElite]

[QUOTE=708.V.G.D.;6452362]
Hi Dete. The one from Fabritius is a perfect original IMO, part of a larger Grouping I have still seen on the Internet.

The second one is a problem for me. Paper § Text are very trustworth. But I really hate the signature from this Oblt, and the Stamp, which seems to correspond to the above mentioned unit, is not doubtless.

Problem is, I have no Documentation about this Unit, probably somebody on the Forum could help.

.......

floor #52

see fotos:

[PanzerElite]

his DK