SS General ID

[Rincewind]

Could anybody id the persons on this picture? Photo was taken in 1940 in Moerdijk/Holland.
Thank you in advance.
k.

[tvonk]

HI,
Paul Hausser is in the middle

Best
tvonk

[andrewb]

And it looks like Sepp on the right.

Regards,
AB.

[Tom B]

NOT Sepp !

It is NOT Sepp on the right. Decorations are all wrong....Never seen a pic of him wearing an army sleeve eagle......also rank is all wrong for the time period ! NOT Sepp !! Might be Heinz Macher on the left ??

[andrewb]

It is NOT Sepp on the right. Decorations are all wrong....Never seen a pic of him wearing an army sleeve eagle......also rank is all wrong for the time period ! NOT Sepp !! Might be Heinz Macher on the left ??

Ok, it's NOT Sepp. Cool down Tom.

Gezzes.....I didn't say it was him. I said it looked like him.
(Think I'll crawl back into the abyss.)

Regards,
AB.

[Tom B]

Ok, it's NOT Sepp. Cool down Tom.

Gezzes.....I didn't say it was him. I said it looked like him.
(Think I'll crawl back into the abyss.)

Regards,
AB.

I wanted to stop a possible sale on the grounds it was "Sepp" & Hauser talking in this photo......This very same photo sold last year for over $100.00 for the very reason stated that it was the two of them. Buyer beware is always needed..... Tom

[Br. James]

It's an interesting photo. I certainly agree that the WSS officer that Papa Hauser is speaking with is not Sepp Dietrich (though when I initially looked at the photo, this officer's face did seem to resemble Sepp); Hausser was considerably taller than Dietrich, and these two are close in height. The officer appears to be wearing the rank of SS-Obersturmführer on his collar.

What is always interesting to me is the apparent casualness with which SS officers flaunted their violations of the uniform code! Many pix survive of Sepp Dietrich wearing his field tunic, ablaze with medals, and sporting an SS cap with a bullion cap eagle in the style of Das Heer! And here we see that same statement of independence: a Waffen-SS First Lieutenant wearing what appears to be a sleeve eagle in the style of a breast eagle worn by Das Heer...and in the presence of SS-Gruppenführer and Generalleutnant der Waffen-SS Paul Hausser, no less! One has to wonder whether this officer might have been hauled away in disgrace just following this photo being taken?!

Br. James

[Lasse L]

It's an interesting photo. I certainly agree that the WSS officer that Papa Hauser is speaking with is not Sepp Dietrich (though when I initially looked at the photo, this officer's face did seem to resemble Sepp); Hausser was considerably taller than Dietrich, and these two are close in height. The officer appears to be wearing the rank of SS-Obersturmführer on his collar.

What is always interesting to me is the apparent casualness with which SS officers flaunted their violations of the uniform code! Many pix survive of Sepp Dietrich wearing his field tunic, ablaze with medals, and sporting an SS cap with a bullion cap eagle in the style of Das Heer! And here we see that same statement of independence: a Waffen-SS First Lieutenant wearing what appears to be a sleeve eagle in the style of a breast eagle worn by Das Heer...and in the presence of SS-Gruppenführer and Generalleutnant der Waffen-SS Paul Hausser, no less! One has to wonder whether this officer might have been hauled away in disgrace just following this photo being taken?!

Br. James

Well no. It is well known that SS-soldiers and officers often wore heer eagles on their sleeves. Why? God knows, it just happend. I dont think they gave much thought to it. Pictures also exist of SS-soldiers in reissued Heer tunics where they still wear the breast eagle on the breast.

[Lasse L]

Btw, thinking of it. The man to the left, could it possibly be Fritz Klingenberg? Wasn't he attached to Haussers staff as SS-Hstuf. (Cant tell if the man is Ustuf, Ostuf or Hstuf) until after the fighting in the Low Countries?

Edit: Compare to this photo of Klingenberg, who also wears an army eagle on the sleeve.

[Tom B]

Btw, thinking of it. The man to the left, could it possibly be Fritz Klingenberg? Wasn't he attached to Haussers staff as SS-Hstuf. (Cant tell if the man is Ustuf, Ostuf or Hstuf) until after the fighting in the Low Countries?

Edit: Compare to this photo of Klingenberg, who also wears an army eagle on the sleeve.

I thought Klingenberg also but the officer in the pic is too short. Klingenberg was 6' 4" tall so I ruled him out. I met Hausser & he was of average height and the unknown guy is only as tall as Hausser......so ??????

[Br. James]

Now that IS interesting: "It is well known that SS-soldiers and officers often wore heer eagles on their sleeves." I was not aware of that, though I agree that the Klingenberg photo provided does corroborate such an assertion. Indeed, in that photo and from that angle, Klingenberg could have even been wearing a Heer peaked cap, since we can't see what is on the cap's face. He also does not appear to be wearing any collar tabs or a cuff band...!! Wow!

Br. James

[Lasse L]

Now that IS interesting: "It is well known that SS-soldiers and officers often wore heer eagles on their sleeves." I was not aware of that, though I agree that the Klingenberg photo provided does corroborate such an assertion. Indeed, in that photo and from that angle, Klingenberg could have even been wearing a Heer peaked cap, since we can't see what is on the cap's face. He also does not appear to be wearing any collar tabs or a cuff band...!! Wow!

Br. James

Indeed. It did happen that SS soldiers wore Heer-visors (or only Heer-visor eagles), Heer sidescaps, Heer-beltbuckles, or generally any Heer insignia which was "sort of" the same as was available for the SS. For these guys, in most cases, I would assume that a eagle was only a eagle and a cap was only a cap.

Oh and Tom B. - great work on ruling him out. Did not consider the lenght of Klingenberg!

[Paul E]

Now that IS interesting: "It is well known that SS-soldiers and officers often wore heer eagles on their sleeves." I was not aware of that, though I agree that the Klingenberg photo provided does corroborate such an assertion. Indeed, in that photo and from that angle, Klingenberg could have even been wearing a Heer peaked cap, since we can't see what is on the cap's face. He also does not appear to be wearing any collar tabs or a cuff band...!! Wow!

Br. James

There are numerous contemporary original photros showing Waffen Officers and Soldiers wearing all types of Heer insignia , helmets etc , nothing unsual at all , and certainly they also suggest that Waffen SS Officers including those of very senior rank were not too concerned about this !!

As with most Armies those sort of rules and regulations are only for the Remfs and penpushers !

The soldier with Klingenberg seems to wearing a Russian camoflage smock.

[Rincewind]

Thank you for this interesting discussion.
Heres another photo from the album.