Goring sig real or autopen?

[glock26]

hi,

as the thread title Goring sig real or autopen?

looks ok to me but then again "i know nothing!"

all opinions appreciated folks.

cheers, del.

[Simon O.]

What's it on?

[Jeremy]

fyi

this thread might help you decide, glock26

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=goring

[glock26]

hi jeremy,

thanks for the link but i don't have the first clue about these things.

it appears different to the printed ones you posted in the jpeg covering 1937 - 1942 but that's as much as i can tell.

what do you think?

cheers, del.

p.s. simon it's on an award doc of some sort.

[Simon O.]

Can't you just post the whole doc?

[glock26]

here are the pics of it simon.

cheers, del.

[glock26]

some more pics. hard to photograph these things!

[PHILBROWN]

gorings hand done, hitler auto pen

[glock26]

thanks phil.

[Jeremy]

diagree

I disagree with phil... I think hitler is printed facsimile and goring still an autopen but with the variation evident as for those shown on the other thread across the years...

[glock26]

agree and disagree

hi jeremy,

i agree and disagree.

i agree the hitler signature is printed. the ink is flat and constant.

but i disagree about the goering signature.

it is definitely not printed - variations in ink thickness at crossovers etc. so it is either signed by a human or a machine.

as far as i understand the autopen technology, the pen is held at a 90 degree angle to the paper and traces a signature matrix to create the facsimile. this results in a constant line width in the facsimile signature.

as far as i can establish, there is no autopen machine - then or now - that can mimic the actual angle and variations in angle of the human hand when producing a signature. or the variations in speed when making the signature that both result in varying line width.

if you look at the year by year jpeg you posted in the other thread you will see this constant line width.

[glock26]

now i obviously have a vested interest in this document as i own it, but i would rather just establish the truth one way or another.

so i would be pleased to hear yours or anyone else's opinions on this.

here are a couple of threads with similar goering signatures deemed to be real.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=503351

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=518844

all this is just IMHO from looking at other threads and reading up about autopen signatures on the web, so feel free to shoot me down if i am completely wrong folks.


cheers, del.

[hucks216]

I believe that they are not hand signed. Here is another one dated for April 1944 that I have in my collection - and on a similar promotion/appointment citation - and the similiarities and size seems to be too consistent over such a large time span for them to be hand signed. I have included a close-up at 1200 dpi of a section of the signature. But admittedly they are hard to tell when seen on their own without comparison to other examples.

[glock26]

@hucks216

yes, yours looks like a match for the ones in jeremy's "over the years" jpeg. constant line width and near 100% match.

but it is completely different to mine shown on the doc above.
that is the one i'm discussing.

cheers, del.

[Jeremy]

autopen

glock26, here is your goring signature compared with the one shown in the thread I referred you to on the Rohr card in post #1. they are both sufficiently symmetrical to each other to indicate to me they are not original, hand signed. An autopen machine was unstable and you get very slight variation but enough consistency to indicate they were not handsigned, and it would appear across the years that more than one seemed to have been in use. Either that or Goring was meticulous about ensuring each signature he signed was done to ensure symmetrical consistency on a photo and document.

the two threads you refer to are discussions from 2 years ago before we became recently aware of the possibility that these were not handsigned by Goring due to the stark symmetry. I will leave you to compare the two for 1939 with each other from those two threads.