opinion on tactical sign

[R MICHAEL]

hello all, I have two new pics. On has a tactical sign that I can't find anywhere. I have looked thru the few books I have and the usaul websites but no go. I know my scanner looks as if going to crap out anytime but I think it gives a clear enough scan. Thanks again. Mike

[R MICHAEL]

next one

this one looks like it is from Panzer group Kleist and the unit sign either is for the 4th I.D. or the 14th Panzer div.

[R MICHAEL]

Hmm the sig rune didn't show to well. hope you all can see it on your moniters

[Larrister]

Hi Michael

The runic unit symbol is for the 4 Inf. division.
Could you post a clearer pic of the tactical markings in first photo. I think it is Infantry but need a clearer pic of letters (look like Jg) beside the square.

Best regards
Larrister

[Akira Takiguchi]

The symbol is a Odalrune and not a Sigrune. It is the Truppenkennzeichen of 14.Panzer-Division. Its predecessor, 4.Infanterie-Division first adapted this symbol during the reorganization phase into a Panzer-Division (Schmitz/Thies) and because the car has a while "K" (1.Panzer-Armee), it must be a photo from russia as 14.Panzer-Division.

[R MICHAEL]

Akira, thanks for your valued information. I must still be reeling from my head cold because I don't know why I typed "sig"... I don't know much but I do know that
Larrister, My scanner is slowly going.. I am going to purchase a new one soon.. Thanks for your insight.

Mike

[Akira Takiguchi]

There is a vague geometric shape under "K" on the 14Pz car. This shape can be observed in this color photo:



I do not have an explanation for this shape yet but it might be a Korps insignia. If it is, it must be from III.A.K. or XIV.A.K. (I would prefer III.A.K. because it has three angles on top, but it is too wild a guess).

[R MICHAEL]

There is a vague geometric shape under "K" on the 14Pz car. This shape can be observed in this color photo:



I do not have an explanation for this shape yet but it might be a Korps insignia. If it is, it must be from III.A.K. or XIV.A.K. (I would prefer III.A.K. because it has three angles on top, but it is too wild a guess).

Akira, great color photo.. You have a better eye I than I do, didn't notice that at all untill you mentioned it. Unless I am reading all this wrong my photo is from the same Korps as in your photo. Very interesting. I have changed my focus to collecting photos with tactical and or unit emblems and I am finding it more rewarding to be able to tell what unit, Korps, or kompanie the photo represents than just the typical non-descript photos that I have collected till now.
Thanks again Akira. Mike

[Akira Takiguchi]

Dear Mike,

it is indeed from the same Korps - it is from the same division, possibly even from the same regiment.

I have changed my focus to collecting photos with tactical and or unit emblems and I am finding it more rewarding to be able to tell what unit, Korps, or kompanie the photo represents than just the typical non-descript photos that I have collected till now.

There are two points about this.

<ol>
<li>so many Truppenkennzeichen are and will be left unidentified. Certainly rewarding if you can positively identify an unknown Truppenkennzeichen, but you will have less chance if you don't have a large group of photos (and hopefully documents) from the same man. Officers, landscape and buildings, graves, road signs, backside writings... Every clue is priceless.
<li>if you pick up such photos from a large grouping and leave the others for someone else, it would make identification difficult for someone who get the remaining photos.
</ol>

I don't ask other collectors to buy like me (because it will be money- and space- intensive), but just wanted to say something about it.

[R MICHAEL]

<ol>
<li>so many Truppenkennzeichen are and will be left unidentified. Certainly rewarding if you can positively identify an unknown Truppenkennzeichen, but you will have less chance if you don't have a large group of photos (and hopefully documents) from the same man. Officers, landscape and buildings, graves, road signs, backside writings... Every clue is priceless.
<li>if you pick up such photos from a large grouping and leave the others for someone else, it would make identification difficult for someone who get the remaining photos.
</ol>

Akira, I totally agree. Unfortunately Ebay has a lot of sellers who have no compuntion to breaking up groupings, and this is where I buy a lot of these unit marked photos.
I have a few albums, with hope of acqiuring more, and they will allways stay together. I am allways trying to find out as much info as I can as well to enhance my knowledge about my collection.
Would you like for me to post the other veiw of the soldats in the 14th panzer pic? I have two pics of the same vehicle and maybe you can match them up with to soldats in your grouping. Thanks again Mike

[Richard Woods]

III. Armeekorps truppenkennzeichen

I think the yellow sign below the “K” is that of Generaloberst Eberhard von Mackensen’s III. Armeekorps (mot.) .It looks like an “M” to me. The same sign has been attributed to 14.Armee which Mackensen commanded from November 1943 until June 1944.

[Akira Takiguchi]

Wonderful and thanks, Richard! "K" and "M"!

The same sign has been attributed to 14.Armee which Mackensen commanded from November 1943 until June 1944.

So we have to be sensitive about timeframe when seeing this insignia!